Had good advice last time I tapped on MN , so I will ask for more help with DS3

[onthewarpath]

My DS3 (4 yrs old) started reception this September. He missed the ease-in week as he was very poorly and when he actually got to class, he became very anxious and was physically ill several times for two weeks on and off (scared of having to go). After talks with him and the teacher it seemed that he was gaining confidence back and was ok going to school. The problems are :

-since, his character has changed completely, he started to steal at the corner shop ( we sorted it by going to the shop with him to appologise and pay for the item)wealso told him off but sayd we where pleased he owned up but that this was never to happen again. As far as I know it didn't, but find it harder to trust him (very sad to feel like that about my own flesh and blood).

• he seems to have also now become quite "nasty" in school with other children, something very out of character.

Has anyone else notticed such a sudden change in thei DC's personality? what steps did you take? I feel I am at the moment not doing the right thing or pressing the right button to have my lovely, happy DS back.

Ah, so sorry you've been going through this this autumn, onthewarpath. I can understand you feeling sad about your DS seeming to change. My own DS (also 4) hasn't displayed the same behaviours as yours, but has had an equally rocky start to school this term, and it's been emotionally taxing.

Apologies if I'm teaching Granny to suck eggs here, but have you done the whole talk-about-feelings thing with him, to try to get to why he's been doing the things he has? You can draw basic pictures of facial expressions - sad, angry, etc - and ask him to point to how he's feeling and get a dialogue going about it. This way, firstly he'll feel understood, which may improve things in itself; and secondly, you may unearth a problem he's experiencing that you can actually address.

Other thoughts include spending as much positive time with him as possible, to stockpile the good stuff - although tricky with three, of course. And also, if he's a summer-born boy and/or just not ready for school, you could consider taking him out for a while if this is an option for you - especially if you think school has precipitated his behaviour.

Not full of ideas on this one - having "fun" with my own DS at the moment, so will be posting myself in a sec! But HTH a bit.

I only have DDs, but I do know how tricky the settling in phase can be, and sympathise. Try to remember that he is only 4 and still adjusting/find his feet in the new scary school world. It is not suprising that he is having a wobbly patch so try not to think of it as a permanent "this is what he is going to be like from now on" type thing. My reception yr DD2 found the start a little tough at times too. After a phase where she seemed to calm down and fit in ok, we recently had a second wobbly patch. I think she has found the change to full day and the darker evening a lot harder and is very tired now. I was very upset about a week ago when the teacher spoke to me to say that she had lashed out at another child and that it had happened a few times before. I felt like my world was crumbling. A bit OTT, but it really upset and worried me. I stressed DH out going on and on about it, talking tactics, routines, earlier bedtimes, stricter rules, star charts to boost positive behaviour etc etc. I went way too far worrying. Talking it through logically, she was being irritated by other, equally tired and irritable kids, and lashing out. No thought other than pure reactive behaviour where she was just trying to cope and assert a little authority onto a situation that she felt out of control. Obviously, we talked it through, discussed how she should have handled it, stressed the seriousness of it etc etc and it has all calmed down.
My point I guess is that you are not alone. I think that many little children are finding this time of year tough. I am not making excuses, but at the age of 4 and 5, they really are still very young. However, it is a perfect age to start developing good social skills with help from school. Not only are they tired themselves, but all their peers are tired and less forgiving to each other. His behaviour could just be him displaying his frustration and wrong footed way of trying to fit in, establish his place in the group. Keep talking to the teacher (our teacher seems to have been much more helpful and positive now she believes we are on side and keen to support her and back her up at home), try to help him eat properly, sleep enough, and keep praising as much good as possible. I guess trying to keep a few play dates going is helpful as well. Gives you an opportunity to help him improve friendships with peers.
We also found that focussing on one or two key points worked for us. rather than a huge list of social rules, we picked on the one key area the teacher felt most urgent to address (she hated people in her personal space, when they got too close or pushed into her, she shoved them out the way very hard) so we worked at that one thing. I think she has stopped that problem for good now and the teacher says she automatically moves away herself rather than pushing others (YAY!). If the teacher can think of one main thing that he could work at, then it might help him. By talking it through, giving simple actions to learn and follow through, you can help them learn how to deal with situations.
We are not in the clear with DD2 yet, and she still has lots of things to improve, behaviourally. Will be watching this thread for helpful tips to try to keep her motivated and calm.
Sorry for the rambling post - stomach bug and brain misfiring. Hope some of that made sense as I don?t have the energy to edit it all!

Just read that through - reads a lot more patronising than it was meant. Honestly, I really should not bother posting when ill. Sorry for that drivvle. I was trying to say that I am where you are and hope it is just a phase. Carry on doing what you are doing and try to stay positive I guess

onthewarpath - mucho sympathy. i have had many tricky times with DD too but am just quickly posting re the 'stealing' - my DD went through a short phase of this too and i was horrified, but we tackled it like you did - marching her back to the shop in question, apologising. she then 'stole' a little toy from her friend the following week!! we had to make a REALLY big deal of that episode coming so soon after the first - and it's never happened again. i think in DD's case it was experimental.

< Waves at KatieK and at being on the same thread AGAIN>
Our DS2 went through a stealing stage when he was in Reception. We did the same as you and KatieK, marched him back to the shop and apologised on his behalf, as he refused. He did it several times including in a French newsagent on holiday, and I had to explain why I was returning the stolen item.(I hope I used the right verb, as flown and stolen in French are similar.)
Last summer we picked up on him being quite nasty to other children at school. This time we did a lot of talking to him about feelings and consideration for others.
He's being very difficult at the moment, and I put this down to it being his older brother's birthday. I think he is very sensitive to feeling he's not getting enough attention. It is hard when you have 3 DC to juggle it all, and make sure everyone is getting their fair share of attention. I think our DS2 behaves badly to get attention when he's feeling the others are getting more than him.
I suppose all you can do is try to give your DS3 some 'special' positive time, whilst making it clear the negative behaviours are unacceptable.

Leavesleaves thank you, I will try to be asking more about how he feels rather than just "how was your day in school?" . It also is true that he is an absolute sweetheart when we spend time on our own but, true as weel that with 4 DCs this moments are few and farer between than i wish they were.

lemontart Do not you are actually quite wise. I like the idea of focussing on ONE of the issues at the time and really like the way the "personal space " issue has been dealt with for your DD.

katiek thank you for the experience shared, did you at any time "lessen" the trust you had in her because of it ? I dealt really badly with it at some point. He came back home with a toy dinosaure saying that the teacher had given it to him. I went and asked the teacher who confirmed it. I felt as my own shoes sole for having gone and asked rather than just believing him.

mimizan Thank you, can I ask you the same question I asked Katiek about trust?

(Pretty sure you used the right french verb BTW)

Phew, relief at not telling the French shopkeeper that my DS had flown a pen.
Sadly I do feel I trust him less. For example, he did go through a phase of taking mine and DH's credit cards. We both thought it was a coincidence we kept losing them, until we found them all stashed away in DS2's purse.. This was 2 years ago. The other day I lost a card and suspected he'd taken it, but didn't mention it. I then found it in DD's dressing up drawer, so it wasn't DS after all.
When he was doing it a lot, it really, really upset me. Mainly because I felt he must be doing it to exercise some control, get attention because he felt he wasn't getting enough from us, or that he felt he had no control.
Objectively I know that children behave in all kinds of ways, often not very desirable to the adults around them. Being a child is pretty difficult, and they are finding their own way in a difficult ever changing world. Really it is no wonder our DC have blips.
I know it is so hard though when your DC is behaving oddly, and everything is not plain sailing.
HTH

and hi warpath. oooh - SO reassuring to read of the rash of theft in our LO's!!! je vole tu voles il vole ... must practice for next holiday in france when DD might get another taster for la vie du crime
of course i trusted her less for a while,oh yes indeed. and hated that aspect of the situation. has to be inevitable tho. i started checking her schoolbag fearfully every day for instance (she brought home the SAME friend's little sylvanian during the same period) and had to have innumerable chats to her about honesty and trust etc. all fine now and i guess perhaps that's bcs she came late to crime (6) and was more amenable to understanding why it has its drawbacks (parents' fury, constant lectures on morality and friends unimpressed)! must go but back soon x

Hi mimizan & katiek
It is the bit I hate the most too (along with realising that I am not as good a parent as I hoped to be...)
I feel "better" for the fact I am not the only one getting through it. I know it is even harder on DS as I ame sure he is trying to get some sort of message across and has still not quite found his feet in school life.
I had a little thinking session and think he might be jalous of his DSis who stays at home with me all day... does that make sense?

It did cross my mind when you said you had 4 DC that there could possibly be some jealousy ishoos. Also am I right in thinking your DS is the third of four DC? My DS2 is 2nd of 3 dc and I think some of his behaviour can be attributed to positioning in the family.

Lol at Katiek sifting through DD's bookbag. I used to have to surreptiously frisk DS every time we left a shop. Glad I don't have to do that anymore.

Yes DS is third in line but he did not seem to be too bothered, the bad behaviour really started with school. He must feel really left out (still comparing to DD4) When he was still at home or just in nursery for the aternoon he was not jalous of DD4 that I ever noticed the change of behaviour has been very unexpected.
I had a chat with his teacher because she has noticed he becomes agressive to other children. She said that when he was on his own he is really nice but changes behaviour when in a group of four of them. Actually she said all of 4 of them (DS+ 3 classmates) are really sweet on their own but create avock when together, maybe he feels he has to be "tough" to find his place in school as well as at home. I wish I could say it is only a school issue but I am pretty convinced it goes deeper than that.
LOL and thanks for "listening".

glad you had a chat with the teacher good to keep the communication going. If she has identified when the negative behaviour mainly happens, hopefully she will manage the group more effectively and watch out/step in fast if/when they are together and if things start to go haywire.
Having another child at home can make the next one "up the chain" of siblings feel jealous. DD1 really hated the fact DD2 got to stay at home with me when DD1 started school. She would often play for my time and attention as soon as she got back home.
Is there anyone near you that could have DD4 now and again to help give you more 1 to 1 time with DS3? Perhaps a little bit of extra TLC for just you and him will help
thinking of you as I know how damn hard work it is when kids are unhappy at school x

I am one of these terrible mums who does not trust anyone with my DCs.. . But lately, DD1+DS2 have started an after school club it is just an hour but we go to the park and while DD4 is quit happy just going up and down the slide on her own. I can play football with him and it does make a difference. We will just have to make the most of all these little moments. I have not been "pulled on the side" by the teacher this week so there is hope...

Parents evening last night, Ds teacher said getting much much better with his behaviour and also that she will keep me updated with any change.