Teachers complaining about DS - Please help

[momofha]

Hi there,

My 5 year old DS's teacher told me she was having issues with DS and that she had the school specialist sit with him for the past couple of months to see what the problem was. DH and I were called in yesterday for the "diagnosis" of the specialist.

So the issues that they are facing are that DS has behavioural issues where you have to talk to him a good many times before he will do what he is told. He seems to not respect the boundaries, as they call them, and seems to often do as he pleases. When you sit with him on a one on one he will do everything perfectly and as soon as you turn your back he will be all over the place. He talks loudly often and laughs out loud etc when doing work or in line, etc. He doesnt complete tasks, starting off all excited and then losing steam.

The specialist says that he doesnt have ADHD, Hyperactivity or any other such issues but that he has these behavioural problems that need to be addressed as he is disruptive to the class and frustating the teacher. When I asked what I could do to correct this problem the answers seemed rather vague and nothing concrete. In fact it was just one answer, to give him small tasks at home and make sure he completes them. She said that he was highly intelligent and picks up very quickly on things but that NO he is not bored or gifted and that even if he was gifted children still needed to know boundaries. Ha,ha, like I had elusions of him being gifted. 8-)

The same things they observe I have observed in the home but I just marked it down to him being immature and having a very Hakuna matata personality as he is always smiley and happy, singing and full of energy. He is very frustrating at times. I would ask him to clean his room and he would moan and moan until I lost my temper and then would clean it for 4 minutes then complain he is tired. Then if I call him to do something I have to call 5 times before he answers. I also experience the same issues where he doesnt want to complete tasks and is way too fiesty and energetic when it is inappropriate to be so. I have had his hearing checked and that is fine.

So WHAT OH WHAT do I do!! Anyone out there have a way to turn my sons behaviour around?

I am at my wits end. Thanks in advance.

specialist?

what specialist?

who is monitoring your child and why were you not informed?

sounds like a 5 year odl to me

yip he is 5

five small little years old.

f.i.v.e

school specialist sat with him for the past couple of months ....wow I wish our school had those resources!
Sounds like an average 5yr old to me who is just not used to school yet.

My son is also like this at 6.. he's the class clown basically! He has the attention span of a gnat, is constantly in motion one way or another, and unless you are sat next to him giving him your undivided attention he will not be focused on his work...

The only thing that so far has helped at school is being sat next to the quietest boy in the class, and during carpet time being at the front on an end next to the teaching assistant so his opportunity to laugh at what others are getting up to is more limited..

Custardo speaks the truth too, he is still small, he will mature as he gets older. However, I have every sympathy for you because it is really infuriating for the parent (and I guess the teacher too). I shall be keeping a close eye to see if anyone has suggestions that i can also use!

I'd just suggest lots of positive reinforcement when he does do the things you want him to. You could perhaps also play some games with him that encourage concentration and listening, but just as part of every day fun, not in a targeted, 'Now We Are Going To Work On Concentration' way - if you see what I mean.

As custardo says, he's only five so it certainly isn't the huge deal that the school appear to be making out of it, but all children do need to learn the skills of being attentive and quiet when it's appropriate, and the ability to concentrate on, and finish a task - but all children learn these skills at different paces.

I'd also say that the school should be dealing with this issue too - he's hardly going to be the first lively child who hasn't got classroom behaviour totally taped that they've ever had to deal with! They need to be encouraging and rewarding him - and perhaps the TA needs to work with him, but gradually reducing the input - working with his table not just him. It sounds like up to now he's had either no extra help or total 1-2-1 help - nothing in between.

Try not to worry too much - easier to say than to do, I realise.

Oh you could me Mumofha. You are describing DS exactly. He now his own little red mat to sit on at carpet time to keep him on one spot but it seems to be working(this week anyway!)

We are being referred re ADHD too - am not surprised at all and look forward to hearing what they say.

Is the "specialist" the school SENCO? If it's anyone external they should have asked for your permission first. Has your DS got an IEP? Still not seen DS' yet!

Has your ds had his hearing checked recently?

I suppose I should back up a bit and give a bit of background.

We are expats living in Switzerland and they seem to do things rather differently here. They expect ALOT more self control from the children. When they say he picks up things quickly they specifically mean that he is speaking French fluently in a very short space of time. We have been told, at the same meeting, that he will no longer attend the French for foreign students classes as he is way above the others in the classes, including the children of the same age who have been in the French for foreign children classes for longer. They are classes they go to twice a week outside normal school classes.

I was told a couple of months ago that they would be having a specialist work with him seperately in class due to him being a foreign English speaking child and also due to the behavioural issues and I consented to this.

You are probably thinking it is due to the language issues that he is having the behavioural problems but I remember that when he started nursery in the UK at 2 and a half the teacher told me she was having similar issues with him. Issues that she was not facing with the other 2 and a half to 3 year olds. So it cant be the language issues.

I can only imagine that if we where still in the UK I would be having similar issues with him in school. I just dont know how to get him to tow the line. I keep thinking that he will grow out of it as he is, as you say, only 5 but why dont other 5 year olds moms have the same problem, here and in the UK?`

I am searching the net for ideas and games to help control his behaviour now.

Thank you by the way Mumofha. It's so reassuring that I am not the only one going through this at the moment.That sounds a bit twee doesn't it, but I been going through a terrible time lately worrying about DS.

Ok

first of all you should have signed something to say a specialist could observe your child. Be seriously that you were not asked.

Who was this person? This makes a massive difference! If it were an ed psych or Paed they will be qiualified to say its not adhd etc, if not then its ime probably an LEA specialist (often known as behavioural advisors) trying to foist any blame on you so they can not need to pop in any funding iyswim. They are bastards of the highest dimensions in this manner.

And you know what? he sounds fine, like a little lad. Play a few games to see if he can come when he is called, work out what his distractions are.... but don;t panic unduly.

Oh just saw other post

See if you can find moondog, she's a speech therapist but specialises in bi-lingual kids so may well have advice here

Yip Bluebutterfly, his hearing showed up no signs of being a problem at all.

Sorry didn't read your last sentence.

I also agree that he sounds like he is just 5 though. I think children (especially boys who need to BURN ENERGY) start school far too early in England, before they are often developmentally ready to sit and concentrate for prolonged periods. Don't really know what you can do about it, though.

My mother always expresses our children's ages in months not years to remind us how young they are - 60 months sounds younger than 5 years.

He sounds exactly like my 5yr old DS. Nursery first raised concerns at 3yrs about him 'not complying' in group situations when asked to do an activity he didn't particularly fancy. The nursery manager muttered ADHD and Autism and we got in a loop of referral to early years SENCO team, ed pysch, hearing and sight tests. We eventually saw a fantastic paediatrician who told me to stop looking for a medical condition and accept that he is still developing. As for techniques we try positive reinforcement of good behaviour using a star chart. Every single time he does what he's told first time he gets a star, when he has 10 he gets a reward - the reward might be watching something on TV, choosing tea, sweets, etc. It means he gets to see results very quickly but is hard work and you have to be over the top with it but it has paid off. I met his teacher and she now carries stars round with her to do similar.
Good luck

Sounds normal to me. We all mature differently ...i know some 30 year olds who act like they're 15 sometimes i.e DH (ONLY KIDDING!)

Your issue mirrors mine. The teacher of my DS (5) spoke to me 2 weeks after starting back in September and asked for him to be observed by a behavior support teacher. The reason for this was non-compliance in class ie: not sitting for extended period of time and completing tasks/worksheets etc. The outcome was he was on his 'own agenda', boring easily and basically distracting others in the class by chatting etc. He is a lively little boy who is popular with his peers and the teachers say he is very 'appealing'. I don't think he is gifted and I know he is bottom end academically in his class (august baby), but he is progressing and around the same 'place' as he's older brother was at same age. Outcome has been he is on an Action plan which allows the teacher to contact any outside resource if she feels she needs it. He is also being assessed by an Language and Learning Support teacher this week to see if there are specific areas that he needs help in ie: fatter pencils, desk at an angle to help letter forming etc. Hubby and I were horrified teacher felt there were issues. We think he is immature and has found the conforming side of school a challenge. He is a lovely little boy at home - no angel by any means. He is eager to do any homework tasks and is progressing through his reading books really well. Can form a sentence and use full stops etc. He is also able to concentrate and sit for extended period doing stuff he enjoys. I am also at my wits end and send him into school every day with my heart in my throat and that's where it stays 'till I pick him up at 3pm. Would be interested to know what they say next about your son. Maybe our demanding, target driven and stressful education system is producing a generation of ADHD boys!! What do you think?

My 4 1/2 yr old sounds very like your son- she just has her own agenda, she will 'comply' if what is being asked of her interests her and the minute it doesn't, she does her own thing again. She does not have a nice laidback nature btw. She also does not have ADHD. I am a Secondary teacher and have a background in Educational Psychology too and I still don't know what to do with her. Some children have a willingness to please that others don't have (eg my DD). She is stubborn and self assurred and very bright.

She is also very lazy (I can't tidy my room, I'm too tired). I honestly think that most of this behaviour is attention seeking (also got her hearing tested- it's selective rather than not working ). She goes to school next year and I anticipate problems to a degree. When interested and occupied she will be terrific, when uninterested she will be bored and possibly disruptive.

That said she is funny, out-going, confident and clever. She drives me nuts and I spend more time talking to her about her behaviour than I do doing things with her. Task completion is a big issue that I spend a lot of time with her on. As she is stubborn she thinks that she can do her own thing in her own time and this is difficult and I have had to clamp down on her sense of entitlement and teach her about her place in the world. Difficult when they are young. Other than that I don't know what to suggest. Reward systems work with her to a degree but incentives (eg you won't go swimming until that is done) also work.

I may be wrong and there may be an underlying issue, however it seems more likely that this a compliance issue. Some kids just don't see why they should have to.

The whole ADHD diagnoses is such a huge spectrum of symptoms. I have been doing lots of research on it and yes, my son probably does have a few of them to some degree, but what 5 year old boy/girl does not?!

I have been watching him like a hawk, which has been incredibly stressful and what I thought before was perfectly 'normal', I find myself questioning. Watching him play with his action figures noisily was the norm, but according to the experts this is also an adhd 'thing'. I have a family of teachers and health professionals who have been shocked and upset by our situation ... but his teacher obviously sees 'something' or does he just stress her out?

Her initial words before any observations were she was setting him up to fail, but told me "not to take him to a doctor as they would just 'drug' him and he would turn into a zombie". It was an awful meeting that left me v. angry, sad and worried about her approach and experience. I complained to the head, but no surprises when I didn't get much of a reaction. Teacher also said she knew very little about adhd/add which was a worry seeing as she's their SENCO too?? She has been contradictory as well, saying he is not SEN .

We are v. confused and I've even considered changing schools, by dh says not to over react.

What are the consequences of his non-compliance at home ? If there are never any then why would be expect there to be any at school ?

If you think his behaviour is a problem, you could try something like '1-2-3 Magic' at home and suggest this to the school as well. I found this helpful when my three boys were being generally unco-operative at home.

If you don't think there is a problem with his behaviour then either leave the school to deal with the school problems or move schools to one that suits him better.

I wouldn't describe him as a 'naughty' boy at home, just boisterous. He is good fun to be with most of the time. I know about 123-magic and only have to get to number 1 and he generally 'jumps'. I can see the schools problem is he's lack of concentration on tasks he finds uninteresting and acting up as the clown for attention, I think. I know he is already known as the 'naughty' boy (along with a few others) and I don't want him singled out and always getting blame etc.

Our view is this is a problem at school and would like them to do whatever they feel works for them and we would fully support them. Teacher was advised by behavior person to give him an activity box he could wonder off to if he got distracted/bored. This has worked really well and he has been able to complete more work.

My older son attended a private boys school when he was 8 yrs and it did wonders for him. We have discussed this as a serious option, but I feel he has been 'blighted' and 'labelled' already and would they want him? We probably need to have a meet with potential school.

Do you think I am overreacting?! Can't see the wood for the trees!!