If your child learnt to read early, did they also talk early?

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

Just interested - do the things usually go together?

Am also interested, but think it may link more closely to the home environment. I have just been reading an article about bedtime stories, which indicated that there are no clear indicators of the factors that lead to an avid reader. A range of factors are needed, most importantly the reading environment - culture, puspose, availability, access, etc. Bedtime stories and the ability to speak well are just a couple of important factors.

Speaking well, imaginatively, in an organized way, being able to retell familiar stories are important in the ability to learn to write. If you are able to recount several simple stories, then you more likely to be able to create your own, remember them and later be able, confident and more competent at writing them, once all the other skills have been put into place.

Will watch with imterest!

I don't know if they do or not, but it seems pretty logical that they would. I'm not sure if dd talked early, but her speech was pretty clear and understandable early, and her vocab has always been pretty advanced. She could have a proper chat with people in queues when she was 3ish - hardly anyone had difficulty understanding her.

my ds1 could read some words before he was 3, but only started speaking at 2yrs and 6 mths. Now age 5 he is the best reader in his class.

I think they go together for children who "click" - ie go from saying 'duck' in the bath on Tuesday to full sentences by Sunday; those children also go seemingly overnight from "Bed, Ben, bed" to the whole of the Seuss early reader corpus. (That describes dd.)

But for others - like isaidboo's son & my ds - reading is always going to be easier than speaking. Ds is still - at 9 - a bit incoherent out loud, but reads effortlessly.

And presumably for lots speaking will always be easier than reading. I have a theory that the two things sit at varying levels in the brain in each individual - so for dd spoken & written language are right on the surface (she responds cogently if you talk to her when she's asleep); for ds writing is up there but speech isn't; for others it'll be the other way round from ds.

A theory which is mine ... etc.

DS was a phenomenal early talker. People used to stop in their tracks and comment. He has very clear speech, a huge vocabulary (was using quite conceptual words like 'both' and 'together' by 20 months) and spoke in lengthy sentneces from about 17 months .

He was not quick to read. It was tortuous doing reading practice until well into Yr 2, and I would say that he did not actually 'crack' readng until after Christmas in Yr 2. (though he is a late summer child). ALL his freinds were more advanced.

So at parents eve a couple of weeks ago, when his teacher asked 'does he read at home at all?' I thought it was a precursor to her saying 'because he needs a LOT more practice', but when I said 'yes' she said ' I thought so, because his reading is way above average'. He has caught up in a flash - but certainly wasn't an early reader.

isaidboo - how do you know he's the best reader in the class? Unless the teacher tells you this information? (which would be seriously unprofessional) curious

why should it be 'seriously unprofessional' for a teacher to divulge that info ramonaq? I know in this day & age class position is a little un pc, but if a child is ahead of the rest of the class it raises certain issues that a teacher might want to discuss with parents so I don't see why they should have to gloss over that info.

& I ment to add I have one child that read very early & spoke at about the usual time (maybe a little early) and another child that spoke very early and read at about the average time. I suspect there might be a small correlation between the two overall, but lots of exceptions to the rule.

It's interesting. I suppose there are different elements to becoming a reader - there is making the initial logical leap to realising that letters make sounds and together they make up words, and then there's the desire to stay with a story because you are interested in it, imaginatively. And then there's the vocabulary - presumably it is way easier to read if you already know more words than if you only know a few. And these three things are all completely different and use different bits of the brain.

DD was an early talker -possibly a bit like Blu's ds - and because I am a pushy mum she has been on at me about learning to read I bought some phonics cards and it's clear she's a long way from making that initial intellectual leap - as far as she is concerned S means snake and L always means Laura. I think the talking comes down to personality too - the desire to interact.

I am a teacher and would never say to a parent - Your ds/dd is the best reader in the class' - what purpose does it serve?
I would say they're in top/middle/lower set . that isn't glossing over anything - you don't have compare others to inform parents how well their own child is doing at school.
but that's me

Isaidboo - that's interesting. Did your ds learn to speak very quickly then? Or did his reading seem to overtake his speech?

No, but when DS's reading "clicked" so did his speech (understanding).

My dd1 was talking in complete sentences well before she was two, and was also a v. early reader (chapter books around the time she turned 5, etc).

Dd2 was a late talker (only said 'bye' until about 18 months, couldn't put two words together aged 2). Even now (aged 4.9) she still has sequencing issues, and will sometimes still come out with odd word orders when speaking. She's also left-handed, which would fit in with the sequencing issues. I figured she'd either pick up reading v. quickly (she has an astonishingly good memory) or struggle. In the event it was the former, and she's now happily reading the top end of the ORT books with minimal teaching input from me or her older siblings.

In between I had a ds, who was at the early end of average wrt to both speaking and reading.

Not sure what that tells me or anyone else, but I think there may be some truth in Bink's theory. I suspect there are different strategies for reading, some of which may go with early talking and others may not. Dd2's system is very largely based on inspired guesswork -- she can sound out if pushed, but mainly she doesn't. She's just astonishingly good at predicting text with a very quick glance, and good at retaining words once she's encountered them. I watch her sometimes when she's reading out loud, and although it appears fluent and effortless, she's only looking at the words about half the time. The rest of the time she's scanning around both pictures and text for (I suspect) clues to base her strategy on.

serving no purpose isn't the same as seriously unprofessional though. Also, if a child is a long way ahead of the otherss then a parent might need to be told why for instance they have to get books from the next classroom or have different arrangements for paired reading - it seems rather stilted to pussy foot around the fact that it's because they're the best than to just mention it.

Several of the teachers at the dcs (senior) school tell me class position at parents evening & it's been mentioned in reports recently too (with no extenuating reasons as outlined above). I was surprised initially, but have got used to it (& find it quite interesting too). I don't think the teachers are more or less professional for it, it seems more a matter of school policy.

early reader not necessarily the same as avid reader.

My db learnt to read late but is now an avid reader in some 20 languages.

Dd was not a particularly early talker as far as first words or first sentence goes, but by the time she was 2 she was unusually advanced- so then she sounded like an early talker iyswim. Again, she was not a particularly early reader, didn't really click until Infants, but once it did click she made very fast progress and is now an unusually avid reader.

Frogs that strategy idea is very intriguing. Yes - I can see how that would make sense. If you had a logical brain you might read by sounding out, if you were very receptive to the world around you you would use other clues to help you.

Kathy that makes sense too. Dd1 is an academic-type introvert, whereas dd2 is so relentlessly outgoing that we suspect she might be a changeling! Looking around taking stuff in holistically is her standard mode for coping with the world not much escapes her. It would also fit with the handedness thing -- since the brain is optimised for left-hemisphere dominance, left-handers will have atypically-wired systems, some of which will work very well but some may not.

Yes in our case
Both spoke early and both read a bit by about 3 and a half.
Ds first words were very early.. about 8 months ...at 11 months he put words together. By about 13 months he spoke like you or i (actually more like a bbc reader)..in full sentences.
He taught himself to read at about 3
He also has special needs..he is on the autistic spectrum

dd did both early too...not so off the scale early though. She is nt (so far)..She is 5 and reads fairly fluently

Ah - frogs's description of her dd2 reminded me - ds's strategies have always been patently visual: once he's really focussed on a word, what he retains (and retains for ever) is the image, the word's shape, and not at all the sound.

So, for instance, once he was learning to read we got some very odd speech: "cli-BING frame" when he'd been happily saying "climing frame" throughout toddlerhood. We still get things like that.

frogs your two sound like mine personality-wise, but for us, ds the academic introvert was the early reader and early/average talker (but aside from that generally fits in with Binks' 'childern who click' group); but our very extrovert dd (we have the changeling thoughts too sometimes) was the early talker (full sentences at 18 months) but later to read (with the same 'inspired guesswork' approach as your dd2). She fits very much with the 'speaking will always be easier group' in Binks theory.

what age is classed as an early reader??
DS started reading a couple of words at 3 and could read a basic sentence book this time last year. He was 5 couple of weeks ago and can read arounf level 5 ORT I think although interest seems to waining a little. However he was refered for SALT as he didnt talk until over 2yrs and would speak to anyone outside of the house until he was 3 and half.

Reading at preschool age...I would class as early. Age three upwards.

My dd1 didn't speak till she was 20 months old, and when she did, it was full sentences. I thought this was quite late, but didn't worry as she understood us.

Conversely, she started reading words at 2 years old and was reading quite fluently at 3 years old.

She is now 11 and a voracious reader (like me!)

yes - the teacher told us he was the best reader in the class - by a long way.
I think although ds1 spoke late he understood everything which was said to him - just chose not to speak himself! We always read alot of books to him, both before and after he spoke. He is a July baby and by the time he went to preschool age 3yrs and 2 months he spoke as well as the other children there.

DS2 on the other hand said his first words just before his first birthday and could speak well at 18 mths. He is nearly 4 now, and can recognise a few words, but nothing like DS1.

ds1 could read some words at 2. He can't talk now he's 9. Although he might be able to read quite a lot. He's confusing us there, we're not sure.

ds2 (rather more conventional) learnt to read fluently early (has been free reading since early year 1) but didn't talk until late.

I've never done reading activities at home though. Until now with ds1.