16 weeks old, routine or no routine? that is the question

[SnoopDog]

i am beginning to dispare at dds sleeping habits,

we have never tried to get her into a routine,

she was bf/ff till 14 weeks, now just ff,

she co sleeps and that seems to be ok,

she has no routine, none whatsever,

should i start to establish one?

she wakes whenever, feeds whenever, sleeps whenever,

i am beginning to dispare at the night times especially,

it is often gone 11pm before she gets even the tiniest bit sleepy,

actually, gotta go, she has just started crying after 10 mins in bed

mailed you daisy

I will do

I was having big, bad regular BH earlier, but they have calmed down again. His head engaged right down deep earlier this afternoon so now I am waddling like I've wet myself....but when my pelvis clunked (like cracking knuckles ) my SPD disappeared

So we went to the park and I gave DD a wee spin on DSs scooter . She loved it, and truth be told so did I

Now get yourself off to bed and sleep while that lovely little poppet of yours is as well.

We'll need to have a pre christmas meet up once virgil has arrived

• see it gets easier!!

My friend said her sil had a baby when hers was 6mths old and it reminded her that she was soo glad she would never ever again be a first time mum! What can I say- definitely character building!!

thats a point jjj,

i will never be a first time mum again,

bring on no dc2

Poor you, it is exhausting isn't it!! I think the routine thing is entirely up to you. 16 weeks is definitely not too early for a routine, it really depends on if you want to establish one or not. Would you feel happier? The baby is likely to fit into what you want as long as you go gently and don't force anything. With both my DDs (who were bf) I started easing them into a routine at around 4 or 5 weeks and by 6 / 7 weeks they were entirely predictable about feeds and naps etc which suited me down to the ground, and seemed to suit them too.

I may have missed it, but although you describe your night feeds you don't give much info regarding daytimes. I found that in establishing night time sleeping sorting out the daytime feeding was undoubtably the most important thing. Work on fitting in as many feeds as you can during the day - my standard routine at this age was 5 feeds during the day, approx 7am, 10.30am 2.30pm, 5pm, 7pm (that's just what worked for us). For a couple of days make a note of exactly when she feeds and naps during the day. Is there a pattern? Can you help to gently 'improve' it (i.e. more daytime feeds, or manipulating the times slightly to suit you?).

You also say that often at night she only has a few sucks of the bottle then goes off to sleep again. I would suggest that at those feeds you don't offer a bottle at all, just cuddle and kiss and rock or offer water. Babies wake for lots of reasons (they have fairly short sleep cycles and often wake when they reach the light sleep), not just for hunger. Although in the short term it can be exhausting trying to re-settle without feeding, it sounds like she is often not that hungry so it should hopefully pay off quite quickly.

Good luck.

I'm definitely no expert, my first DD is around the same age as yours, but just thought I'd let you know that she's only started getting into a routine the last 2 or 3 weeks.

From early days I'd do bath at 7pm then BF then put her down in our bed/cot. My mum gave me the advice when I was pregnant to be really boring at night, and I think that this has worked. If DD needs fed its done without talking or eye contact then she's put down again. Luckily she's never really protested about this and has dropped night feeds to twice, about 2am and 6am (then we get up at 8am ). I also offer feeds every 3 hours during the day in the hope that she's full enough at bedtime to settle.

I love co-sleeping and still do most of the time, although I have a bedside cot (which is same height as bed and pushed up next to us with side down) she can still see us and I can still reach her easily and in my experience DD sleeps loads better when she's not in the actual bed, not sure if DH and I wake her when we move when she's sharing the bed.

Not sure if these work or I just think they do but honestly we had no routine at all for the first 14 weeks it was all feeding and wanting held all day with lots of short night feeds that I thought were just for comfort but DD has kind of settled into her own routine at 17 weeks, naps approx 3 hourly during the day for 45mins at a time, without me doing anything apart from the boring at night thing. I think I might just be lucky...

Hiya, I'm far from an expert but I can glady tell you what worked for us, I'm well aware all babies are different and while I dont think babis 'should' be in a routine it worked for us.

We losely followed, and still do, the baby whisperer routine.

I set my alarm for 7.15 and go into nursery and gently wake dd (she is 21 weeks old) sometimes this is not needed as she will wake herself anytime from about 6ish. I go downstairs and put bottle onto warm and have a quick cuppa then Ill feed dd. The day tends to go in cycles of feed, up to 2 hours of activity (anything from playing on gym watching me shower/cook/cuddles etc then back for a sleep, anywhere from 45 mins to 2 hours. Then she wakes and the cycle starts again.

I put her to bed at 7ish every night with a predictable, bath, quiet bottle in the nursery, cuddles, settle her into cot awake and she sleeps. Sometimes she sleeps through other times she wakes and I feed her quickly and back into cot but no matter what I always wake her at 7.15ish and put her to bed at 7ish and it seems to work for us.

I find she needs feeding about every 3 hours during the day then she needs less at night. And if she sleeps longer than 2 hours in the day I wake her.

It isnt for everyone being in a routine but it works for us, I think my dd was overtired as she used to cry loads in the evening, that seems to have stopped now, or maybe she has just outgrown it.

I feel a lot better with a loose routine in place, its boring but it works for us.

Hmmmm, I don't know how to help other than say DD3 was exactly the same. I carried her round in a sling for ages so I could get things done round the house and se to the other girls. Then sudden;y she got biggr and I started to notice a routine forming all on it's own and I worled with it. I'd put her down on my bed (she was BF on demand) and then take ages sneaking away from her, going back every time she cried if I was still on bed / in room. Then she'd settle, I'd come down and sometimes go up and down to her gettingher to settles (never actually picking her up) until sometimes about 9.30. Then she'd finally sleep. She'd snack on me durignt he night but after 6 months I put her in her own room and that night she went from 7pm to 7am. It did also coincide with her first bit of solid food. I thought that I'd do solids and own bed in the same week.

That all seems so long ago now, (she's 13 months old now).

Have to say, as crazy as it sounds, reading about her waking and crying and sleeping on your knee has made me all broddy for that teeny tiny lovely new born phase again. It's over so quickly really.

Sorry that wasn't helpful, but you've truly made me go all misty eyes and broody!

Well, DS has a medical condition which means he is fed very strictly. he is 19 weeks old now and has been fed every four hours, religiously, since he left hospital at 5 weks old.
Taking away his illness and all the stress, this routine that was imposed on us has been a Godsend. He's fed a very controlled amount too and is not allowed to feed in between meals (tho I confess to breaking this little rule now and again, especially after his jabs ).
He feeds, naps, I get on with stuff. he wakes, we play. He feeds, naps.....and so on.
Despite DSs illness, life with him has been very easy thanks to this routine. Though tomorrow he has to endure an 8 hour fast. If he does well, I will be able to demand feed (yay!) and just watch my routine go to pot! He is my first too, so can't compare with anything else, but I have been warned, in advance, not to let him 'graze'. I mention this as it could be what your LO is doing. My greedy little piglet that he is would eat constantly if I'd let him.
The long and the short of it is, routine has been great, but I'm hopefully looking forward to not having one for a bit!
If it helps, we feed at 160ml per KG per day, divided by how many feeds you want (6 in our case). It may put your mind at rest as to whether LO is feeding enough to maintain her for 4 hours or so. Good Luck x

thankyou for all your advice,

the night before last was awful so i didnt/couldnt post too much on here,

she seems to need constant attention cant think where she gets that from

last night i tried some sort of routine,

bath at 7pm, snuggled up in fleese sleepsuit by 7.30,

bottle and bed by 8pm,

she was fast asleep on putting her to bed,

20mins later...

she was crying so i tried the, shush, sleep thing but no chance,

she ended up back downstairs till 10pm,

she then fell asleep so i joined her in bed,

all good...

no,

11pm she was awake and crying again,

5mins on the bottle and she had gone back off,

she woke again at 1.30 and 2.50,

each time it was for a quick slurp and off again,

at 4.20 am however we had a battle,

she cried, whinged, threw herself about, waved her arms, hoo-ed and haa-rd until i, close to tears, gave up, and got up,

when i took her to her room and undressed her to change her nappy she was smiling and cooing at me (cute but not at that time in the morning)

i actually think she had wind and that on this occasion she was not just being difficult for the company,

the last time a looked at the clock it was 6am [knackered emotion]

dp came in from nights at 6.30 so i passed her over and got some sleep until 9.30 when she started crying again,

ALL IN ALL I WAS WOKEN 7 TIMES [crazy sleep deprived woman emotion]

today i have tried again to set some sort of routine,

she has been fed every 3 hours (9.30, 12.30, 3.30, 6.30 and 9.30) but she is still awake as i type this message,

she has only slept for 2 hours a time today, twice, as i poked her if she tried to rest for any longer

i am at the end of my good nature...

i think co sleeping is not helping her to settle,

i am thinking i may put her in her cot tonight but dp is on nights and i shall just worry all night long so i bet i will end up on the spare room floor wrapped in my quilt

what do you think?

it is a good job she is so cute or i would have e bayed her last week

she is now sleeping in my arms after feeding,

she is wearing a white babygrow with sick and calpol stains on the front

she has her mouth slightly open and i can see tongue wagging as if she is sucking on her dummy/my breast

this new baby thing is hard at times...

i need some sleep

HELP!!!

please

I was just heading off to bed but thought I'd check in and see how things are.

I really don't know what to suggest jules. Have you talked to your HV about it. the needing teeny amounts of milk to get her off to sleep again sounds like a comfort thing to me, but I admit I'm no expert. could you try and get as much into her in the day as possible in the hope that she won't wake at night?

GF suggests feeds at 7am, 11am, 2pm, 6pm and 10:30pm, and daytime naps from 9-9:45am and 12-2pm. feeds should be as per recommended for that age I assume. Can't remember exactly.

Can you have her in a crib at the side of your bed, or one of those drop sided cots so that you are sleeping near her, but not co-sleeping as such?

Have you got any family who could come and give you a night off; it must be so hard with your DH on nights all the time. you will feel like a new woman after a decent night's sleep.

And I promise I'll post he book tomorrow. Wasn't quite organised this morning and my local PO closes Wed afternoon and I can't get in the car anymore to drive , so it's waddle locally or don't go at all

thanks daisy,

you should be looking after you,

can wait for V to put in an apperance

she is the most beautiful thing and i struggle to be tough but she needs it (and me too)

she has wavered 3 times so far and i am doing a good job of ignoring but i feel bad,

i absolutely refuse to pander to it,

she is shouting/whinging at the moment,

should i go and hug her???

I would let her know that you are there but not pick her up. she is a wee bitty wee for just leaving her to cry it out at the minute. I know you said you tried the shush patting thing, but it'll take time for her to get to realise what the new deal is.

My two were older when they went through a phase of waking and needing to be cuddled back to sleep (in fact DD is going through it at the minute again). first night was hard.....we went into her every 5 minutes for over an hour beofre she settled; next night it took 45 mins, then 25 then 15 then 10 and by the 6ht night she settled before the forst five mins were up and we never heard a peep all night. She was over six months though.

It's hard though , especially if you are effectively on your own.

I wish virgil would hurry up; I'm fed up with all the mini contractions I'm having that never quite work up to being something worthwhile.

and with having puffy ankles!

she has (kind of) dozed off again,

it is the to'ing and fro'ing that winds me up,

up down up down,

wwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh,

desperate lady needs lots of sleep,

she is, once again, quiet,

i have surrendered,

my quilt and pillows are on the floor in her room,

i blardy love her to bits

bless snoop; I hope you have a more restful night; even if it is on her floor.

and as an aside, we put DD in her own room at about four months as we kept disturbing each other. We had the babyphone on even though we can hear her without it.

Take care and I'll catch you tomorrow....if I'm still here that is

nasty niggles are back again...and DS is in my bed as he had an accident and I can't get up his bunk to change the sheets. I hope it doesn't kick off tonight. DH not home till tomorrow night!

bumping for the daytime crew.........there's not many folks about when you normally post :0)

Right snoop I've got my sleeves rolled up for this one!!!! lol

Please don't forget that a 'routine' doesn't just happen, it can take a couple of weeks to train the little buggers little angels into doing what it is you want them to!

This is what I did with DS2 (I learned from my mistakes with DS1!! It all sounds horribly familiar!)

I started with his night time routine, we go upstairs at 6.00 ish, depending on what time dinner finishes, I then clean him all up (I don't bath him every night) and let him have a kick about with no nappy while I sort stuff out, (I sometimes put a soothing nursery rhyme CD on too) I then put him in his nappy, PJ's and sleeping bag and turn the light down really low or off with the landing light on and then aim to give him his bottle for about 6.30, once he's drunk this he is either asleep or half asleep, I can then put him down and leave him.

This didn't happen over night though, it was weeks of perserverance, but I think the key is no stimulation, hardly any eye contact and not to 'gush' if he smiles at me (Although that one's hard!)

I also found that if he had no sleep in the day, he was a nightmare at night, and weirdly, the same goes for if he had too much sleep, so I now let him have two 1 1/2 hour naps during the day. If he doesn't show any signs of being sleepy, I put him in the sling at nap time and walk abit, he soon dozes off and I then transfer him to the cot. Again, this was a matter of trial and error!

As for feeds he has 6 bottles in the day, first one at 7ish, then every 2.5 - 3 hours until bedtime. I still haven't got into any kind of 'routine' in the day, I;m still demand feeding, but that's the bit I'm working in now.

You do sound like you are coping remarkably well all things considering, the best piece of 'advice' I was given before I had DS1 was to remember that you get used to doing it one way, then they change the goal posts!!!!!

I hope this all helps, as I said it's not really advice, just how I've done things differently from DS1 (with him we pounded pavements, drove for miles, paced the house, offered dummies, everything, eventually at 5 months we resorted to control crying, and as horrible as it was, it worked for us, but I know it's not everyones cup of tea)

Right, my fingers hurt now from all this typing. You did ask Hope last night was better.

Oh and jus had a thought, hae you tried offering her a small bit of cooled boiled water in the night, this can work two ways, firstly it help release gas/wind and second it makes them think twice about what they are asking for!

Oh and jus had a thought, hae you tried offering her a small bit of cooled boiled water in the night, this can work two ways, firstly it help release gas/wind and second it makes them think twice about what they are asking for!

thanks daisy,

jodie,

good idea about the cooled water, i shall try that tonight,

you will be pleased to know that last night was better,

only a bit better,

but it was,

and the wooden floor was not to uncomfy either,

she slept from 11pm ish till 3am when dp came home early (unusual) from nights and dream fed her,

she then slept till 5.30am ish when i fed her and she went straight back off again till 8.30 am this morning, were she smiled and laughed to wake me up,

i think she likes the cot

she has been fed lots again today, only had 2 naps and i am going to try the theory again tonight,

To risk getting flamed... I got to your pitch at about the same age - just got frusrated with not knowing what was happening and when, and felt like that for my own sanity I needed to get some structure to my days and nights. I felt completely out of control and didn't cope well with not knowing what was going on ? ever...

So... (ducks behind sofa) I bought and strarted to implement Gina Ford's contented little baby routines. I can honestly say, they saved my sanity.

Now that's not to say that DD has ever, ever followed these routines to the letter, she's a fairly rubbish napper so we had to tweak things a bit to allow for that, but I found it relly helpful just to have something to aim for - even though most days we did, and still do, end up going somewhat (completely?) adrift from what it says in the book. But broadly the timings seemed to work for her, and having somethng to aim for worked for me. It did help with he night time sleeping as well.

But I've never done controlled crying, we have always (contrary to what GF says) cuddled to sleep - still do (actually I quite enjoy it - it's the only time she stays still longe enough for proper cuddles!) etc etc. I'm too much of a softie to be hard core GF really.

In short, if you feel you need some kind of structure to make this thing work for you, then I'd recommend Gina Ford, with the proviso that you don't bother too much if you go 'off script'.

As for the babies, I don't tink it really makes much difference to them, (provided you're not too rigid with it) aside from the fact that Mum might be a bit less frazzled.

Right I'm going to duck and cover behind the sofa until the flames die down a bit

db
xx

no idea if its been suggested (my own baby stage is too raw and recent for me to spend a moment reading the horror of others' !)
but wrt routines; i found that jotting down what was actually happening showed me that there actually was a routine when i thought there wasnt.
dunno if that helps you at all...
[runs away screaming from endless baby stage nightmares (i had 3 under 3 and younest is now 2.9)]

designerbaby you're not on your own. GF mummy here too. It worked well for us. I'd go loopy without some structure to the day.