Nursery Exclusion for 4 year old

[tink3rb311]

Wondering if anyone could offer any advice. I have a lovely little boy who is not a perfect angel but does do as he is told and we do not have any tantrums. Sounds great heh!

However then he goes to nursery. Whilst he is on site at the nursery I am told that he kicks the staff or other children and has been banned. A health visitor and SENCO have visited him at home and at nursery, neither times has he displayed this behaviour. The nursery accepted him back but are now saying I will need to collect him each time he kicks.

Does anyone have any advice as I am quite desperate for help?

Do you have a home/nursery book that will allow you all to find the triggers for his behaviour?

my neice was well behaved but when at a creche she used to swear and was very rude to the teachers, we think the teacher was mean to her in some way as she has never had that problem with anyon else, she was fine at nursery etc.

I feel sorry for childcare workers when they are accused of being mean to a child because they display unacceptable behaviours.
Prehaps the children in question are finding a more regimented environment difficult to adjust to?

Have you asked him why he kicks?

This makes me really sad I have a friend who's nearly four year old is having terrible problems with aggression, both at nursery and at home. He clearly has some sort of "problem" (not implying this with the OPs son, my friends lad has some very odd behavioural traits). BUT his nursery have been fantastic apparently, as i say, he does have some problems but no diagnosis yet - he is a very bright VERY bright little lad but his social skills are bad. He has been seen by HV, SENCO and Peadiatrician, they have advised watch and wait BUT they have provided the funds for him to have one to one care at nursery to help him adjust. He has done alot more than kick other children.

OP, you need to be quite determined here i think, please do not allow your son to be labbelled at such a young age. Im not saying you are, but it is so difficult as parents as we want our children to do well and we tend to accept whatever the childcare "professionals" tell us. If your lads nursery cannot cope with more challenging behaviours, perhaps you should try and find somewhere that can. You sound like a lovely mummy and he is clearly doing this out of worry, separation anxiety maybe? Not sure how you going to fetch him everytime he kicks is a good idea, he might be doing this because he feels worried without mum and by kicking he gets you there to comfort him?

Hope you work it out

Actually, on re-reading this, i can't understand why they did the home visit, if he is only displaying this behaviour at nursery - it does sound like this is being poorly handled by the "professionals" to be brutally honest.

Something is triggering his behaviour in school.

While I can understand your frustration, your and the nursery do need to 'unpick' what is causing this, so that it isn't as issue when he starts full time school.

It isn't a case of 'labeling' him, but aggressive behaviour can't really just be ignored. IME the earlier the issue is sorted the better.

The question is why does he kick? Can I ask if he's an only and not yet used to verbally negotiating his way? What does your ds say about it?

I don't think that he is being labelled- it is an early warning call of problems that need to be sorted.
Do you leave him with anyone else, friends, grandparents etc and if so how does he behave.
In the nursery they have to consider all the DCs. He will be expected to follow instructions. I would ask if you could go in and sit in the background and observe, see what sets him off. Work with the nursery to resolve it. It is better to do it now than continue to have problems when he starts school. He has to know that kicking is unacceptable.

If it's only happening at nursery - that's quite significant. What have the SEN people said? What strategies have the nursery tried with him already? Sending him home is a cop out, unless the behaviour is very extreme.

p.s. My son had 'serious problems with aggression' at nursery last year. Nursery were on the verge of calling out SENCo. I had to pick him up when he kicked off etc. Nightmare-ish. He started a new nursery this autumn - I was concerned about the amount of time the old nursery staff were putting him on 'time out', and their general attitude towards him. Guess what? NO aggression problems at new nursery. Maybe he just grew up a bit over the long summer holidays. Or maybe this nursery is a nicer place...
(New nursery teacher was horrified that SEN people had ever been mentioned by old nursery, btw...she thought they must be barmy!).

Oh my what a nightmare for you and your DS i would be very tempted to change nurseries if things dont improve maybe its a clash of personalities with one of the teachers amazing how children can kick of if they dont get on with someone.
My DD had a personality clash with her teacher in reception year the teacher was so negative towards her my DD has absence epilepsy it was not diagnosed when she was in this class and the teacher told me she was putting it on. One day when i picked her up from school she said to me see that tree over there if i had some rope i would have hung your daughter from it they way she has behaved today as you can imagine i was absolutely mortified not long after this the teacher left, thank goodness.
I hope things improve for you both soon. take care

Did you report her, Kazann?

I really feel for you!

We are going through this with our 3yo boy. At home he is an angel.
Nursery was another matter.

He was scratching, kicking, hitting, shouting and biting at nursery.
We removed him from nursery as he told us it was making him "feel so sad". He kept on about having a "sad face" too.

He got a really rough deal from nursery who I strongly beleived blamed us.

We believe they made his behavior worse as it was not managed with any kind of consequence for several months. This seems to have given him a message that when Mummy & Daddy aren't around it's ok to run riot.

We have had him observed and assessed by the relevant professionals. It's taking time.

We started him at a pre-school group which for the first 3 weeks he was the model pupil but the last 2 weeks his behaviour has gone worse(not as bad though). It's looking as though he will have to see an Educational Psychologist and have a 1-2-1 assistant.

He is an extremely advanced on an intellectual level but is only acting out his emotional age in many respects.

We are really beating ourselves up about this because we just want him settled.

Thank you for all of your messages. When they banned him they asked me to go in and spend the day at nursery to monitor his behaviour for myself. He was in no way clingy he let me play with other children whilst he went off with his friends or other nursery nurses plus he was a complete star all day!

He is my second child however there is an age gap of 10 years. Both boys. I took him to see another nursery but having to wait to change due to free nursery funding already being given to the original nursery.

Someone mentioned about his behaviour may be extreme. He didn't have any issues for a few weeks then last week he kicked another child once and so far this week he has hit one of the nursery staff once. Is that so bad? I know it's not acceptable but surely this amount of violent behaviour is not so much that they cannot cope with?

AT the meeting with the nursery they were asking me how hard did I think he should kick their staff before they called me. I think it might be time to move him.

On the basis of that last sentence, yes, remove him now.

Kazann!

I worked at a nursery a few years ago and we had to expel a 4 year old boy.

He was awful. He would kick, punch, bite and spit at us and the other children. We just couldnt control him. He needed one to one care which we just couldnt give him. He was lovely some of times.

We didnt here anymore from them which is a shame as I would like to have known how he was doing.

I would definetly take him out now before they expel him. Have you thought about a child minder who could give him more attention?

Is he bored at nursery? A friend of mine had all sorts of difficulties with her bright ds at nursery but he didn't exhibit any of the behaviour at home. We have dc the same age and I was surprised at how little her ds was doing at nursery compared to mine. Eventually he was excluded and she placed him in another nursery having briefed them on his behaviour. At the new nursery he was kept stimulatd and interested and his behaviour was transformed (and was good from the outset).

one kick and one hit and they want to exclude him ?

What do they do for biting then FGS?

No, it's not acceptable behaviour, but they need to manage it with you, not exclude him.

Find another nursery, please!

Hi back again for some more advice!! My son's behaviour has now changed again. We are waiting to finish at his current nursery as everyone suggested, however he has started to say to other children and staff that he doesn't like them and that he wants to cut them up into pieces until they are dead. I have no idea where he gets this from but the kicking has calmed down if that's a good side?! It's still only happening at nursery, any ideas on what I can do to stop him????

Not sure if anyone interested but he started at a new nursery at the beginning of January. The feedback I get now is how lovely and well behaved he is!!! I discussed his behaviour with them before he started as I wanted to be completely up front. They have said that they think it must have been the nursery as they have not seen anything like the behaviour they were telling me about!

Thank you all for the advice you all gave it was nice to have your support.

hi tink

Not posted on this thread before, but was interested in problems you were having, glad to see you have settled DS.

I have opposite problem DD2 is fine at pre-school and nursery but is very trying at home.

Am on another link re this www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/684314-5-yr-old-DS-is-driving-me-crazy-Please-help

Hi Sorry to hear you are having problems. I had a few different professionals involved and they said that your way round is normal (Sure that doesn't really help!) They told me that it is the fact that at nursery the child is in a routine and they always know what is coming next, at home things can change.

Thing is that doesn't explain mine though as both myself and the nursery held our routines and also compared notes to make sure we disciplined in the same way, etc.

I do hope things get better for you I know how heartbreaking it was for me when he was being unruly, however I just kept looking forward to the weekends!!

Good luck

My sister decided to remove her son from school one day a week, due to a clash of personalities with a sub teacher, she was honest with his other teacher who did not put up a fight and agreed that it would probably be best as they knew that the sub teacher was leaving the school in a few weeks, The sub teacher brought out the absolute worst in him (hes no angel, and aggression is one of his problems) but he was responding well to a star chart, unfortunately it seems that the sub teacher had labelled him the naughty boy and every week on her day the chart would be covered in sad faces. Sometimes it is a clash of personalities-it happens to adults and there is no reason why it couldn't happen with children, iwould try to change nurseries and see what happens.