Obnoxious, horrible child, what do I do

[Chiccadum]

I know it's a horrible title, but pleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaasssssssssssseeeeeee, someone else tell me that their child is sometimes obnoxious, cheeky and horrible. Dd1 is always very loud and energetic but when it comes to dinner and tea she generally eats very well (when dh is at work)but, as soon as dh is at home she changes overnight. I have just had to fight with her to stop her smearing tomato ketchup all over and gouging her fork into the table. When I said stop it and eat your tea she just turned and said 'I'm doing it cos i want to so what difference does it make to you', it doesn't help that dh seems to be able to turn a blind eye to all this behaviour and just says it's a typical kid.

Can someone give me some advice before i flip, I'm very stressed as dd2 is cutting 3 teeth at the same time and very grumpy (dh won't even attempt to sooth her), so as you can imagine I am at the end of my tether

Yes, I have one of those too - you are definately NOT alone!! I get "Stupid Mum!!" accompanied by screaming and stomping off and slamming of doors ( will need a good plasterer soon!!)! Have a look at the ADHD threads because the advice on them is good for all sorts of bad behaviour.

Go into the loo, lock the door and swear alot and badly. Helps me every time!!!

I do feel very lonely with him sometimes; I'm the only one with a child like this etc, but know I'm not and posting on here helps me alot - kept me out of court so far !!

Chiccadum, you poor thing! I have a 10 year old (I'm sure he's turning into Kevin the Teenager already) and a 2 year old. What a great combination?!!! I seem to have the patience for the younger one but I run out very quickly with the older one. Sometimes I sound like a complete cow - even to me! The main thing is to remember that you are older and wiser than them. Speaking quietly can help too.

And if all else fails I'd go with the loo suggestion!

Chiccadum, does your dd1 have any possessions that matter to her? If so you could suggest that you might smear ketchup over them "because you want to"? Or even just do it once. (Then run to the loo and lock the door. )

I know they all go through obnoxious stages, and some of it is just for attention, but respect for other people and their possessions is a 2-way street. Cruel but fair, that's my motto!

No, you're not alone. Gouging out the table, spitting food out and messing about is the norm at my dinner table. I get really stressed about it and usually end up with indigestion. My 4 year old holds up a fist and says " do ya wan it? " when i tell him off and i send him to sit on the stairs with the timer set for 5 minutes. He's still a nightmare tho so my method mustn't work must it? lol

I've got one too. I've lost count of the number of time today I've told him to calm down and point out that I AM THE GROWN UP! He constantly answers back and tells me what to do and there were several times today I could have quite easily locked him in the toilet!
He'll be 4 in April so on the whole he is quite good but when he's bad he's really bad. it horrifies me that DS2 could be learning all the tac-tics of 'winding mum up' from him!
To be fair though, I'm expecting again now so I know alot of it is that my level of patience has gone to zero and so any bad behaviour takes the wraith of my temper...poor little bleeders.

You are not alone!!

My DS is only 2 (in fact 2 in 3 weeks time) but can go from angel to devil in 2 seconds. He hates getting dressed/changed & will fight like anything, including throwing his head against door frames etc so it can really be quite frightening. He is absolutely fearless. He has tantrams in the street, I can never dare let him off his reins & he terrorises the others at toddler groups.

Equally he can be charming, very friendly, not at all clingy (probably can't bear to be with me!) and other people say he is a joy!
Bliss !!!!!!!

No your are not alone, my ds will turn from being well behaved to a complete monster that I can't control as soon as his nanny comes round. It makes me feel silly in front of my mum. He won't put his coat on, start throwing things at me, telling me I am naughty etc etc. I know its not only my child that does that, it just makes me feel like a plumb.

My dd1's behaviour was so awful (she's 2.9yrs) that (in despair and at the end of my tether)I called dp at work in tears and informed him that she needed professional help as she had behavioural problems!

Of course she doesn't, but it's awful how such a small young thing can drive normally sane and together adults absolutely demented!

Chiccadum you're not alone

Chiccadum, YOU ARE NOT ALONE! I went to bed last night at 7.30pm in floods of tears because all mine had been horrible! They fight, scream, swear, are rude and cheeky and treat me like I'm a piece of you know what! Dh and myself have done evrything, from explaining why Mummy is pulling out her hair and would a bit of help and respect be SO hard to give, to grounding, taking away things, not taking them to Girls Brigade etc..Does it work? NOOOOOOO! Yesterday I felt so rotton that I'd dropped them off at school and not shouted BYE like normally do, I was weepy all day and eventually found a number for Parentline. (This may start another thread!) Well, you know those health visitors that don't have kids themself and treat you like an idiot when you mention something, that was the woman I got. I was chatting away trying not to cry and as you do, talked over some problems, including relationship with dh, family issues etc all of which contribute, I think, to daily stress levels and therefore the way I react to the kids. After a while, (and a couple of suggestions that I've already tried) I was told I'd been on the phone 40 minutes and it sort of went really quiet. I wanted to say, So, but felt at bit embarrassed (had I phoned the AA by mistake, no I checked the number beforehand!)and then she said that she didn't really feel she could help as we'd been talking for 40 minutes and there were too many issues there. She suggested that I concentrate on my own realtionships/problems first as this was obviously affecting the children's behaviour. I came off the phone feeling even more guilty and like an awful mother! I have spent ages talking to various friends telling them that it's normal, they're not bad mums and then come home and look at me and mine! Does this mean, accoording to that woman, that if my house is immaculate, my job is wonderful and I occasionally have sex with dh, thus alleviating all stress in the family (not forgetting to do the ironing and be kind to animals!!) that my children will transform overnight into perfect little angels? I THINK NOT!! Saying that, I love my kids, they can be wonderful and sometimes I do say to myself that having four kids, a business and a great Dh(sometimes) is hard work and I must be mad! Hope this makes you feel better and made you laugh!!

With that on your plate Jollymum you deserve a medal - best of luck with you and yours and am amazed you got through to Parentline whenever I have tried its never been possible I think possibly not all people are cut out to listen to others on a professional basis and you just happend to get one of those - take care

Thanks Lulu41!

Chiccadum, just a thought, but if Dd1 is fine until your dh gets back, could it be that she wants attention/feels that she's sharing you etc or something like that? In my case dd3 (aged 7)has been very jealous of baby dd4 and has been angelic outside the home and hell to me. The hardest thing in the world is to avoid the fight (I know, because I'm lousy at it!) but you could try just quietly taking her food away and saying that the meal is over each time she does it. She won't starve! The other thing is that if your dh is turning a blind eye then she is getting conflicting messages which she can play up to, so perhaps you both need to agree a compromise strategy and see if it works.

Agree with Gilli about getting dh to play his part - with both your girls. Or if he won't send him to some other part of the house.

Also, if the issue is often ketchup, how about not putting the ketchup on the table - either give her none (explain why) or you put some on her plate for her (not sure whether the ketchup is coming from her plate or the bottle!) Also give her soft plastic cutlery (heinz used to do a little set for babies - don't know if they still do).

The title of this thread sums up exactly how I have been feeling about dd1 lately.
A bit of background: She's 6 years old, very bright, articulate, a "good girl" who likes to be good, used to be painfully shy but has come out of herself since starting school. However, she has an absolutely filthy temper on her and seems unable to deal with the intensity and power of her rages. We have been all through this before with her when she was 2 and 3, but then in some ways it was easier to deal with, as she wasn't so articulate and couldn't answer back so readily. Now however, if things don't go as she would like she turns into an absolute little s*. For example, yesterday she wanted crunchy nut cornflakes for her breakfast, there weren't any so she agreed (happily) to have rice crispies. Unfortunately, I didn't put them in the bowl in the "right way", so she shoved the bowl away - rice crispies all over the floor and she started screaming and shouting at me telling me that we did have crunchy nut cornflakes and I threw them away so she couldn't have any (it would be laughable if it wasn't so annoying), this then built and built and culminated in her calling me a "dirty pig" along with all the usual "stupid woman","stupid mum","I hate you" etc, etc....
During these outbursts, I try (and usually succeed) to stay calm (although I'm screaming inside) and send her to her room, which usually results in her screaming and shouting more, accompanied by violence too (or at least threats of violence "I'm going to kick you in the head" )
Yesterday morning she had most of her Easter eggs taken away from her, which I told her she had to earn back. In the afternoon, she was really helpful, we were moving furniture and general tidying and she genuinely was a help and I told her she had earned them back. However, today, she's lost one of them again, because yet again, I didn't comply exactly with the complicated rules of one of her "pretend" games (I was the dinnerlady and didn't call them in in the "right" way).
So, to sum up (thank goodness I hear you cry), she can't bear it if things aren't done, or don't happen exactly as she planned/expected. She's a real Jeckyl and Hyde - screaming banshee one minute, calm, friendly and helpful the next. What can I do? I try to be calm, but sometimes lose my rag which I know isn't helpful, but honestly she would try the patience of a saint at times. It's only at home she's like this - with me, dh and dd2.
Any ideas on how to try and contain this?

Ill eagerly await any responses as it sounds like my daughter, age 5. At least you are not on your own is all i can say. And appreciate the good times, if you can bear too!

I would also like to see what advice people offer as this sounds just like DD1. She's bright and can be lovely- bubbly, creative, very kind to other children and helpful- then suddenly she can have a terrible tantrum. Usually around beginnings and endings eg yesterday she had an almighty tantrum leaving my cousin's house - refused to go in the car- we managed to persuade her into the car but I had to sit next to her and hold the seat belt for an hour whilst she hit and screamed and called me an ugly cruel beast !! We have just seen a psychologist as we are all finding her behaviour hard to manage. Her advice was to give lots of positive praise, and we also have to keep a log of her tantrums ( daily at present) and give them a score out of 10- 1 being mild and 10 being - we go back in a couple of weeks. I am hoping it will help- will keep you posted if any new ideas!! We do go through spells of lots of tantrums and then things calm down- so I am telling myself it will calm down in a few weeks!!

My son is exactly the same and has been since he was 5. He has been diagnosed with ADHD. I also try and stay positive as all the web sites, books and professionals involved say you have to be but it can be very hard at times. If it only happens at home you might not feel it but you are lucky. My son is like it all the time and it is causing a lot of problems at school. When I was first finding D such hard work I approached my health visitor and she arranged for him to see a psychiatrist. If you are having problems it is well worth getting it looked into as the older they get and the further they get into school the harder it gets to get the help. My infant school was excellent but the juniors are struggling and I'm trying to get my son statemented which is also harder the older they get. There are good books with good advice that can also help.Good luck.

I am rewarding my daughter with a sticker a day for good behaviour at the moment and for 7 stickers, hopefully a full week of nicer behaviour, she has a magazine or a toy from the pound shop. It has improved her behaviour. I also said she had a screaming monster that she had to tell off when it wanted her to start screaming (i was relating to my nicotine monster as i was at the start of giving up smoking and was apologising for my rattyness}. She has often mentioned her screaming monster, whether its the chart or the visual picture of this screaming monster i do not know...just thought id let you know.

just a quick message - have you tried a behaviour book? My son doesn't really have mega long tantrums, (though he can be difficult), but I've found it really helps to write things down.

Pattens of behaviour begin to emerge and this makes things a little easier to deal with. The book (each day divided into am, pm and evening) is looked at by his school teacher too. She writes comments in his behaviour during the day. Often all he gets is and 'Ok' or a 'fine - no problems' from us both. We also write down the times he has been extra good, so the book doesn't make too depressing a read However, my son knows if he is awful at home his teacher gets to read about it,and this is some deterrant, especially as I can use this as a threat to make him stop.

Even though he is nearly 9 years, if he has been difficult I assume some of this might be due to tiredness so I also make him have an earlier night than ususal - part punishment, part care for his general wellbeing.

Sympathies to all of you who have this and manage to keep your temper.

Yes, I have one of these too and haven't found an answer yet ... I did find a note earlier where a mum took her daughter into the garden and poured cold water over her every time things escalated. She said it worked for her. I haven't tried it yet but it made me laugh out loud so thought it might make you smile anyway!

it's nice to know that I am not the only mum with a jekyll and hyde son. my almost five year old would scream, cry, kick, punch at the slightest provocation. he was also having real problems with toilet training and at times I was sure he was poohing in his jocks just to punish me. also my 3yo DS is an absolute sweetie laid back and easy going we seemed to skip the terrible two's with him entirely, so it was reassuring that it wasn't our parenting skills. It was really difficult as my family not being used to littlies would definately favour the youngest which I hated. We have now moved back to Australia and I found a terrific naturopath who advised dietary changes and also Vitamin b complex for his nervous system which was stressed(not surprising with all that screaming and crying) and he is definatley better, we still have spats but nowhere near as bad. He is much better if I talk quietly to him and I stay calm( not the easiest thing to do). when I get angry the situation seems to escalate very quickly so I keep the mantra CALM, CALM CALM in my head the whole time. I also sit outside under the gum tree when I feel its just better to be away from him. Behaviour cahrts hve helped too but defaintely the best thing was no sugar or yeast in his diet (plus I lost 1/2 a stone yay!)

Thought I would revive this thread as I am yet again at my wits' end with dd1 . Today and yesterday she has been particularly obnoxious - both days she has hit/kicked me, and both days she has been sent to bed early.
I am finding it increasingly hard to know how to deal with her anger/rages, and I suppose she is too, which is why the problems happen. I've just been re-reading "The Secret of Happy Children" which has chapters dealing with teaching children to deal with anger, and assertive parenting, and it's given me a few ideas. I'm also going to start a reward system, but am not sure exactly what to reward her for - it has to be something concrete and attainable - but being rewarded for "not hitting mum", just seems crazy to me. And I don't really know how to deal with her when she does these things - my instinctive reaction is to hit her back but I obviously don't do that, as that would be self-defeating, I mostly seem to end up dragging her to her bedroom with her screaming at me, coming out of her bedroom, screaming and hitting more, etc, etc. TBH this really is getting me down - I see so much of myself in her and I feel like its my fault she's like this - if only I was a more patient and calm person, then she would be, too.
Sorry to those of you who've seen me moan on about these problems for 2 years now - we think we've got it sorted, and it starts all over again.
By the way, dd1 was presented with a certificate in her school assembly last week "For always doing her best, and always being polite". So I know she's not all bad. Just feels that way sometimes.

emsiewill, poor you, I can't help but tell you two things that people I know have done, my dd is no angel but is still young enough to be "controlled". One person swears by time out, not putting them on the stairs but just saying" because you've done that I am not going to speak to you until...", then once the crisis is over sitting down and talking about it. The other person tackled the swearing / name calling by putting mustard in the boys mouth - worked an absolute treat apparently!! She made a big thing of getting ready and in the end it only touched his tongue.

Emsiewill, poor you and I do know the feeling, having a ds who is very capable of obnoxious behaviour, including violence sometimes. He's a bit younger than your dd at 5.5 yo but I do think sometimes they have such a hard time being good all day at school that we get all the aggro once they're home. What worked for us:

A star chart as you're thinking of doing. We didn't make the star for one particular thing, it was to do with behaviour between certain times, so one star for getting up well and being good before school/in the car, one for behaviour after school until bedtime etc and so on. He had to get quite a lot (25 or something IIRC but at a possible 3/4 a day it didn't take that* long) to get a Beyblade.
Bad behaviour book. Similar to Tigermoth's suggestion on this thread but we used to reward with a star and write down bad stuff in the bad behaviour book. I know a lot of people won't approve of drawing attention to bad behaviour (and you may be one of them, feel free to ignore, obviously) but I HAD to do something, this was violence (hitting me too) and I was not* prepared to put up with it. The reasons I thought it was a good idea were:

• I had to go and get the book and write it down rather than react. I know the feeling of wanting to hit them back but it is counter productive to teaching them violence is wrong
• I kept an accurate record of exactly how bad it was rather than just feeling it was terrible most of the time (& it turned out to be less than I felt it was)
• He knew the rules and after 3 x bad behaviour something got taken away (beyblade, outing etc)
• We did make sure it was really quite bad to have to go in the book though - minor misdemeanors (sp?) weren't recorded

• We also typed up the house rules and had them on the wall. They were things like "violence isn't acceptable, we are considerate towards each other" etc etc
• The new regime was explained to him very carefully before it kicked off. He understood and immediately tested it to see if we meant it. He found that we did and things got better.

He's not an angel now all the time but I wouldn't want or expect him to be. What else?
Distraction still sometimes works if I spot the paddy coming and get in quickly enough. Anyway, much sympathy, I do know how trying it can be. BTW I'm not particularly patient or calm either so IKWYM - I said to my ds one night "Why are you shouting at me like this" and he replied "they're your genes you know mum" Hmmm! I also got lots of good advice here - try searching on 4yo turning into Kevin the teenager. HTH.

Oh I also bought a book called I Feel Angry about coping with angry feelings and we read it quite a bit. It's stuff like 'When I feel angry I need to run and kick a ball very hard' - might be worth borrowing from the library. Let me know if you want the ISBN or anything.