Does your 4-year-old switch between seeming like a highly civilised, reasoning mini adult and a furious, irrational strop-throwing animal?

[barelysane]

Just wondering, really, because mine does. And - having a neurotic moment - I'm wondering how "normal" this is.

Take yesterday evening: we had friends over who have a baby. DS was charming, playful, funny, intelligent, confident, thoughtful, helpful, sociable - for about four hours. I was in awe of him. Then he really did have to go to bed and Did Not Want To. Granted, he was a bit tired, but he threw toys at me in front of said friends , repeatedly slammed the bedroom door next to the room with the friends' sleeping baby in , hurled verbal abuse at me and got himself into a kicking frenzy. In the end, I smacked his bum for only the second time ever because I didn't know what the hell else to do, and then Dad took over bedtime and I had nothing more to do with him until this morning.

Felt really sad that such a lovely evening had ended like this, and a bit overwhelmed by how feisty DS can be and unsure of how to handle it.

DS has fewer temper outbursts now he's older, but my God they are explosive when they happen. Hopefully they'll keep lessening with age ...

Is this just four-year-olds? Or is mine a rarity and needs help?!

I'm sure it is a phase, even if a very prolonged one in our case!!

That's what I keep telling myself, anyway...

Failing that, there is always boarding school

I am so,so relieved by this discussion. My 4 year old DD went through tantrums from 18 months to just past 3 years. We'd just about sorted it (occasional blow outs but infrequent enough for mummy to have the correct reserves of energy to handle them!) but then since starting school 6 weeks ago she seems to have reverted back. Not a day goes by when we don't have several nasty prolonged incidents and it's wearing me out. At first I put it down to being overly tired and excited by starting school so brought bed time forward. But it's continuing. Just simple requests such as time for tea, put the toys away, go to the toilet are met with absolute refusals followed by stamping, screaming, crying.

Is starting school a common trigger for this behaviour??!!!

Yes my 4 y/o does too.

Mine can throw a good strop as well (he is 4.1) though I wonder how much of it is due to me being stressed and irritable. Reassured to hear that other DC do it too though.

Did it start/escalate shortly after starting school? If so any hints or tips beyond valium for me and medised for her? (joking!!!)

The being stressed and irritable is a vicious circle though in my experience. The more frequent the episodes occur the less and less able I am to deal with them in the way I know I should ie calmly, patiently, and a response in proportion to the outburst. I'm starting to go OTT about the slightest misdemanours now to try 'nip things in the bud' but of course it's only making things worse as the tension levels on both sides are on a permanent state of red alert!

Thank you all, I'm not so concerned about my apparent schizophrenic child now!! Everyone comments on my adorable angelic little girl who is always smiling, laughing and so kind, yet behind closed doors (mostly)she can be horrible. It really undermines your parenting confidence if you have any in the first place!! Now stressing that this is life for years to come!!

Hi BK. My daughter is beautiful, confident, bright and a completely charming child, in public. I'm very proud of her in many respects. However, when I tell people what she's like behind closed doors I feel people think I'm either exaggerating or just telling big fibs. Since she started school staff there are cottoning on but whilst i feel vindicated I feel like a bad parent for possibly encouraging such naughty behaviour. It's lose/lose!

And, the final irony, I'm a child care expert!?!?

yes, today especially it has been an exasperating day to say the very least. I am putting it down to tiredness but omg. She is bed now and i'm just beginning to calm down. She is 3.6

DS (4) is never like a mini-adult.
He is, however, incredibly sweet much of the time.
And the rest of the time he's an obnoxious brat.

Weird thing is, someone (a parent volunteer at school) spontaneously gushed how wonderful it was to work with my DD (7, quite bright). Course I was happy to hear it, but couldn't let it go -- I had to put this poor woman straight about what a complete cheeky mare DD can also be at home.

LOL!

What is the secret power brats have? When they're obnoxious in public we bust a gut reassuring people that they have positive aspects to their personalities. Whereas when they present in public as angels we can't wait to put people right about their failings?????

Ahhh, this is why I love mumsnet. I've logged on to add a post about how upset I am about my 4.5 yr old's behaviour and where the hell am I going wrong and I leave with a happy heart that she is PERFECTLY NORMAL. (If bloody hard work at times). Thanks ladies...

Dear girls/ladies/mums.....whatever you'd prefer to be called,

This is my first night on mumsnet and I was driven here by utter frustration,fear, and paranoia.

I can't tell you how (through just a handful of responses) much better I feel. I haven't really smiled for 6 weeks. I've sashayed between exhausted/explosive, and so very low. I know the stormy seas will continue but for the first time in what feels like a very long time I'm going to bed feeling ok. I'm not mad, I'm not a bad mum, I'm just normal with a normal child upstairs asleep.

Thank you all. x

no, but I do

You do what Lurker?!

what the title says

!!!

Yorksmum- I am sure you are right when you say starting school might be a trigger. My 4.10 yr old has also developed a split personality lately. We joke that she is Mrs Health and Safety- she constantly watches out for her younger siblings and is desperate to be seen as a "big girl", but at other times she melts down over next to nothing.

Yesterday, for example, after I picked her up from the school bus, and jokingly said (in front of our neighbours and their kids) that her little sister was complaining that dd kept her awake last night, and she went into a screaming tirade, with foot-stamping a-plenty and crying, about how dd2 was a LIAR, how she HATED us all, and would NEVER EVER speak to us ever again!!! I just stood there open-mouthed, then told her I wasn't interested in listening to her roaring at me in the street like a fishwife, said goodbye to the (gobsmacked) neighbour and her children and walked off with as much dignity as I could muster, her trailing behind, dragging her schoolbag on the ground, still shreiking and wailing!!! I told her she was making herself look stupid, to which she shouted that I was THE STUPIDEST PERSON HERE! Then she hollered "SOOOOOORRRRY!!! OK? ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?" Erm..not really! I thought it was meant to be teenagers who behaved like this!!

And just to compound it for me, her 3yo sister (herself no stranger to a good strop!) is watching and learning- aaargh!

So JJJ, do you have any handy hints?

Interesting you mentioned fibbing because my dd has started doing that too recently though it started just before school. And she is absolutely adamant she is right. It's quite scarey. She even got into a big argument with the headteacher in the 2nd week at school and then fibbed to try get out of trouble...I felt so embarrassed!

As for the tantrums, it's been suggested that I relax the rules a bit but I feel that if I do then I'm giving in. As far as I'm concerned 'normal rules still apply' regardless. The trouble also is that as I'm constantly wound up I do overreact at times.

Am i being too rigid?

Oh, its so difficult, isn't it? It totally depends what kind of mood I'm in and what else is going on around me as to how I respond to dd1 throwing her weight around! Yesterday, because we had an audience, I was serene and calm, refused to engage, told her how I felt about her behaviour in a very level way, and left her to scream it out while transferring attention onto dd2. But I'm not always so level-headed! I told her that I was going to take away 3 of her "things", with one more added to the list each time she continued to scream at me- we reached 4! When we got home, she became contrite and apologised properly, and we talked about her behaviour, and I agreed she could have 2 things back for apologising, but that didn't completely make up for it. Later we did her homework together, and she tried really hard, so her reward was recovery of the last 2 things, which she was chuffed about.

I don't know- I do think they somehow are testing, because they NEED to feel the security of those boundaries- does that make sense? they need to know that you care about this kind of behaviour and are taking it seriously. No idea- maybe it's because at school they find themselves one of a number of others, which is in stark contrast to being a big fish in a small pond at home, so push to see if they can still get that starring role at home???? I'm no psychologist, lol. But yesterday during dd's outburst, one of the things she trotted out was "Noone cares about me any more!! You all gang up on me!" Now, of course that's not true, but maybe she just feels like she's missing out on our time at home. So I'm trying to make her homework time feel like an important thing that we do together, and which the younger kids aren't involved in, or allowed to interrupt, and that we also do a wee bit of other stuff together. When she tantrums, I try to walk away, not least because I have a temper myself and would hate to lose it with her! Sometimes I send her away to her room to "calm down" so that I can do the same

I have DS 4.6 exactly as you describe when he is good I am sooooo proud of him he is so clever,funny and polite. Then he becomes 2 a bigger stronger vesion of his 2 year old self, completely looses control. So pleased this is normal