Can you tell me about your child at 2.9 years old?

[lou031205]

I have posted elsewhere, but to cut a story short, the pre-school feel that my DD1 (2.9) is 'behind' and needs 1:1. They are getting the inclusion co-ordinator (formerly SENCO) to come and assess her so they can fund it.

I think that they are thinking along the behavioural/emotional development lines rather than intellectual, as they feel she needs 1:1 during the free-play element of the session rather than the directed time.

It would be really helpful if some of you could tell me what your 2.9 year child is/ was like in terms of

-empathy/perception of others' feelings
-impulsiveness
-knowledge of whether something was 'naughty' and self-control to not do 'it'
-likelihood to run off and play with taps in a bathroom
-perception of danger
-energy levels and understanding of 'down time'
-concentration span
-interacting with other kids.

Thank you so much in advance!

And anything else that you think was relevant, please!

will try to cover all
DD1 is 2.9[dec baby] and is very empathatic if you look down shes asks are you sad if you yawn she asks if you are tired and want to go to bed etc. she can be impulsive in her behaviour but only what I would say is within normal realms for a toddler. Sometimes she will run off and not be aware of things around her like the road or people then other times she is very aware and will walk nicely and behave. She doesnt really play with the taps in the bathroom unless she catches dd2[20mths] doing it and then she might have a go herself iykwim.
Her attention span varies depending on her mood but I can sit down and read a story to her or she will sit and colour in/watch a tv programme. She interacts well with other children however she is the most out going out of all my three children and she is also used to being in strange social situations[currently in hospital where she has introduced her self to anyone who happens to pass her]

My DD is 3 in Dec

-empathy/perception of others' feelings:- very perceptive, will hug if someone upset or hurt and gets excited for others!
-impulsiveness:- not sure TBH
-knowledge of whether something was 'naughty' and self-control to not do 'it':- is at the point where she is more than aware of naughty things and will push boundries right now but does cry if caught out.
-likelihood to run off and play with taps in a bathroom:- The bathroom is her favourite place right now, if left alone she will run to bathroom and play with taps, toothpaste and shampoo!!!!
-perception of danger:- is aware of danger but doesnt always think about it unless told first.
-energy levels and understanding of 'down time':- is constantly on the go but will sit or lay down quietly if told to and also loves just hugging and reading books.
-concentration span:- is capable of sitting and doing activity for atleast 15-20 mins before getting restless, this is the minimum.
-interacting with other kids.:- im lucky DD is a very social person but we have been attending P&Ts since she was 5 weeks old and always have other kids over.

I must add that my DD is completely different to how DS(8) was at this age and he has just been diagnosed as having ASD.

Ds is two months younger than your dd aqnd doesn't go to nursery, but does have two older sisters and goes to parent and toddler groups...

_empathy etc - if he hurts me enough to make me cry he appears to regret it, other than that, bulldozes his way along regardless.
-impulsiveness /self-control, liklihood to play with taps - he is aware that there are things he shouldn't do, which he still does, while watching for my reaction. If he was allowed near taps he would turn them all on, and then empty every bottle he could find and "wash up"

• perception of danger - none. He has learnt that drinks are hot, and doesn't touch, but will run into a road.
• down time - when it suits him. I still can't take him into story time at toddler group as he is so disruptive, but he wil sit quietly and look at a book with me/another adult alone.
• concentration span - very long! will play with a toy for ages unless disturbed by other children
• interaction - likes older children, tends to sit and let younger children hit/bite/kick him, then cry. Never fights back.

His speach is behind the average, but otherwise I'm not worried.

I'd be talking about my niece whom I childmind but she is the same age.

-empathy/perception of others' feelings
she empathetic to other people but not with animals
-impulsiveness
She isn't terrible impulsive. She's quiet and will hold back to assess the situation
-knowledge of whether something was 'naughty' and self-control to not do 'it'
yes
-likelihood to run off and play with taps in a bathroom
She might but would know she shouldn't and would be apolegetic if found.
-perception of danger
Would have a keen sense of danger but might not always know that things were dangerous unless trained or learnt through experience. ie wouldn't know about WHY a road is dangerous and might run across but would know that jumping off something high might hurt and therefore wouldn't do it.
-energy levels and understanding of 'down time'
She still naps and is happy to do so. sometimes I suggest and she tells me she's not tired but will do it without too much fuss when I say she must.
-concentration span
hmm depends. She's good in the car when listening to a tape but drawing would only hold her attention for 5 mins.
-interacting with other kids.
Pretty good but better with older kids. Is still pretty shy with children and plays along side them rather than with them.

ds is 2.9 also. he hasn't been in a nursery situation before and i can't begin to imagine how he would deal with it!!

he's fairly empathic - will say "awww" or "oh dear, crying" if he sees someone is upset.

he is VERY impulsive and has his own agenda for much of the time - if he wants to go off in another direction then he doesn't care how far he goes on his own.

often he seems to do things he KNOWS are naughty to get a response - with a cheeky smile or other expression which tells me that he has not just been carried away with whatever he is doing.

currently his thing is running off and playing with the toilet, not the taps! taps would be a bit more hygenic at least!

he can be careful and is usually very good at taking hands to cross roads etc, but occasionally he will try to go flying across without a thought.

he has loads of energy and it used to be very difficult to get him to wind down at the end of the day. things are improving since i cut out afternoon nap.

he could concentrate on the tv forever but was quite resistant to shared activities requiring concentration and, crucially, things requiring some language. turns out he does have some language delay and we have been visiting the speech therapist. there may or may not be other issues too.

his interest in shared activities, reading, puzzles, etc has improved since we cut tv right down.

he gets very excited about visiting friends, but will usually just parallel play with them, although he will lead friends about by the hand.

phew!

I'll tell you my experience. Bear in mind it is only my experience with my DS...

My son started a new nursery at the age of 2.9 yrs. For the next 6 months or so he was a bit unsettled. He seemed to enjoy going to nursery and didn't mind me leaving, so it wasn't the usual settling in traumas. However, the nursery became increasingly worried and to be honest I think exasperated by his behaviour. In relation to the stuff you mentioned:

Empathy/ perception of others' feelings - DS wasn't great. He was/is a highly verbal child, so could say what behaviour he klnew was wrong and how he should act etc, but was completely unable to put it into practice.

impulsiveness - he was completely impulsive and would grab for things, sancth toys, push children out of the way. He found sitting still /waiting his turn virtually impossible.

knowledge of whether something was 'naughty' etc - completely lacking. Again, he could verbalise it all beautifully after the event, but had no self control often pushed / hit/ bit other children out of frustration or to get his own way

perception of danger - non existent. Would run out in road or climb a high tree etc

energy levels etc - would basically run around like a nutter until he ws completely burnt out. No ability to settle at quite play while at nursery 9although was fine at home!)

concentration - again, very good at home (could do jigsaws or play with lego alone for extended periods, but at nursery he flitted from one thing to another and never settled.

interacting with other kids - quite poor. Bossy, aggressive, didn't want to play with them or even alongside them a lot of times

It;s worth mentioning that as well as being a very bright, verbal child, my son is physically very tall and strong for his age. He seemed (and still does) to need a lot more physical exercise than many other kids his age. His height also made minor scuffles more serious, as the pushing and shoving that can go on between 2 and 3 yr olds was made worse by the fact that a push or shove from him against a smaller child always had worse consequences!

After 6 months the nursery started talking about calling in SENCO. I was upset, but so worn down by constantly being told at pick up time that he had bitten someone / disrupted an activity etc that i thought maybe it was appropriate.

There was a small improvement in his behaviour just before the end of term and they decided to hold off on calling SENCO until the following term.

Anyway, to cut a long story short - his behaviour has slowly improved of it's own accord in the last few months. he is now 3.7 yrs old and behaving much, much better. The biggest and most noticeable improvement has been in his ability to get on with other children, play together etc. I really believe this is developmental. He has, to put it simply, started to grow up.

He has also started a new nursery who were horrified to learn that his old nursery had considered calling in SENCO for such a young child without very good reason. The new nursery teacher thinks that all the behaviour we described was completely normal, developmentally, for some children at that age and that labelling a small child as 'difficult' at such an early age was utterly wrong. Interesting. The staff there were also unimpressed with some of the 'strategies' his old nursery employed in order to get DS to behave - basically, lots of 'naughty corner' type action. They are much more concerned with heaping praise on young children for good behaviour and dealing quickly and firmly with bad behaviour - but not dragging it out with prolonged periods of withdrawing the child. This attitude has had a fantastic affect on ym son, and we are using it at home, too. He positively shines at nursery now - he adores praise and appealing to this love of praise is working wonders with him.

In retrospect, it makes me very sad and a little angry that his old nursery didn't seem to follow any of the good sense written in virtually all literature on child development. If they had've, they never would've thought of calling SENCO. Thank God they didn't!

Sorry - this is an essay, but what I mean to say in a nutshell is - think carefully about all this.

Thank you.

She is a December baby, also.

Empathy - extremely quick to point out someone is sad, or upset, or sore. Will tell me baby has fallen over, or is sad.

Impulsiveness - She is extremely impulsive, and seems to have to 'investigate' everything.

Kowledge - she knows afterwards that x was naughty, and will often say "not funny, very naughty". But it doesn't stop her doing things like upturning her potty on her sheet, full of wee. Today, she poured some left over tea into her (fortunately empty) library folder.

Perception of danger - she will run straight out onto the road. We have a stairgate across the porch door now to protect her from herself. And one across her bedroom, top and bottom of stairs, and kitchen! She will climb on tables, Last week DH was in the loft, and he turned around to find her next to him - she had climbed the ladder.

Energy levels - seems always on the go if not asleep. There is no way she would have a rest on the sofa, for example, although she will sit on me to watch telly, but is always talking about what she sees.

Concentration span - quite short, will get transfixed by CBeebies, but generally quite 'flitty' between activities.

Interacting - Plays with other children, used to church every Sunday since birth, and fortnightly toddlers. Apparently popular at pre-school. Plays with her sister and family members.

Pre-school have been vague, but I think they can't keep up with her. She always comes home with a spare top on because she has escaped into the bathroom and played with the water.

They say that she loves it when they do craft with her, 1:1, and think she would love it. But to be honest, I think that in general, you don't get 1:1 because you 'love it' - wouldn't every child? So I suspect the fact that they have flagged it means that they have substantial concerns.

I spoke to my church toddlers leader today, and she said that she agreed with pre-school that there is something not quite right with her behaviour at this age.

They all agree that she is clearly well disciplined. She is very polite, always says please, thank you, etc. They don't think she is being deliberately naughty, in fact the example they give is that when I tell her to get down from climbing on a table, she does so, but her look is 'vacant' - as if she doesn't know why she shouldn't be on it, she just knows Mummy has said 'no' and has to get down. But two minutes later she is doing it again.

At a recent camping trip with the church, I walked into an awning to find a family eating on their laps because she was stood on their table I didn't know them, and I had been distracted only momentarily by her younger sister. They were very gracious I was mortified.

ds3 is 2.8
i reckon hes a 'bad' example for you tho as hes the youngest of 3 under 6, so spends a lot of time with his only slightly older brothers and does everything 'early'. way earlier than the other two did. they are the best 'teachers' in the world.
if you do want me to list his answers to your list of q's, i can do... ask and you shall receive.

orry - posted before I'd finished. Meant to say - think carefully. Sometimes nurseries are very good at flagging up special needs before they arise. However, in the case of my son, I believe the nursery weren't coping with dealing with 30 other children and my spirited, tantrumming, energetic little boy, and so calling in SENCO was a cry for help from them. Fair enough, but this could have had serious implications on y son's future /education. I think my opinions are borne out by the fact that he is now, just months later, virtually unrecognisable at nursery to the child he was 8 mths ago. He is still essentially a very spirited boy, quite bossy, wants his own way - but very obviously doens't have any special educational needs.

hm
just read yuour last post and that is ds2 down to a tee. hes 4.2 now tho.

he also had the 'vacant' thing at that age, where you could tell he didn't really know why something was wrong.

Have just caught up with RaggedRobin and MrsMattie's posts. I really do appreciate your time, all of you

I do wonder about some of her behaviours. Recently we have been walking home from pre-school and she either roly-polys the whole way home (well, at every piece of grass she comes across - she's not daft and knows that concrete hurts), or she will just every so often drop to the floor, on her back, legs up in the air and laugh. It is a little bizarre.

Not one person I have told about pre-school's concern has said that's outrageous, how could they think that - except her grandparents, who are very PFB about it all.

They have all said (bearing in mind that my church toddler group see her 3 times a fortnight, and my friends see her at some point at least twice a week) 'hmm, I can see what they mean.' My friends have all said that she doesn't seem naughty, but just responds to my instructions and discipline oddly - like she knows she has to do x, but has no idea why I am getting my knickers in a twist. Whereas, you would expect her to know that so and so was naughty after 100 times of telling.

Nappies, yes please re: ds3 - how is your son DS2 now, do his school have any concerns or do they think it is perfectly normal to have those characteristics.

Could pre-school be seeing it as more indicative of a problem because she is a girl? Would it be seen as being a boistrous typical boy if she was male?

Of course, secretly I am hoping that the Inclusion Co-ordinator comes out and says "how rediculous, she's fine". For her sake. But I do have concerns myself. She is just so high-maintenance. Totally adorable, funny, kind, affectionate and witty. Clever and independent. But feel like I need two of me just to keep up with her, and her antics, let alone her 13 month old sister, and another on the way!

she sounds a bit rough and tumble to me which dd1 can be due to trying to copy ds.

If you are concerned then take her to see HV and see what they say?

ok. ds3 answers;

-empathy/perception of others' feelings - well he can ignore them if he wants or hes determined, but he percieves the feeling of others well imo. he read on my face that i was stressed earlier and he stroked my cheek and asked if i was ok.
-impulsiveness - well... yeah. but i think is 'normal' for age
-knowledge of whether something was 'naughty' and self-control to not do 'it' - hmmm, yes, if hes been told its naughty he'll know that i suppose...he still might do it tho.
-likelihood to run off and play with taps in a bathroom - i daily threaten to unconnect the sink taps in the bathroom coz they wont leave them alone, all of them.
-perception of danger - well its a naive one, again, i think thats fairly standard.
-energy levels and understanding of 'down time' - ah, hes good at that, regulating himself and his energy levels. will sometimes say if tired (rather than getting all antsy about it)
-concentration span - i think it seems ok... have not 'measured' it as such... no concerns.
-interacting with other kids. - oh yes, he is v adept at that.

d'uou know,m writing that list has made me realise how diff my answers for ds2 are, and these are current, so less pronounced than when he was younger;

-empathy/perception of others' feelings - admitted to if pressed hard... dont seem to bother him much. dont think he cares much.
-impulsiveness - lots.
-knowledge of whether something was 'naughty' and self-control to not do 'it' - yep, hes beeen told a million times that x is naughty. and he will, if made to, say ' sowwy mama' and promise not to do it again... but he will do it again, and its like hes following a script rather than meaning anything. v frustrating!
-likelihood to run off and play with taps in a bathroom - see above. my lot love taps!!
-perception of danger - finally gets that roads are dangerous, and jumps well clear of driveway if he hears a car coming... but v easily distracted on the street and will run out without hesitation
-energy levels and understanding of 'down time' - he will run and run... he really needs his structure - needed his naps at 2.9, and i mean really needed them... but absolutely NOT to have them past, say 12, nor for more than 1.5 hrs or he would NOT go to sleep till at least midnight.
-concentration span - terrible.
-interacting with other kids - good, but utterly on his terms. capitulates to his older brother a lot i guess, but will choose to be alone rather than not be given free space to just be himself.

i think you have possibly a point about gender playing apart. id be v defensive of a daughter if i felt she was expected to be 'nicer' and 'better' behaved than the boys.

the nursery teachers last year did ask me if i was thinking of getting some behavioural help with ds2... but i think that was b/c i mentioned that i might... they had a terrible time with getting him to cooperate with anything much and his ability to tune you out is amazing. its like he just does not hear you calling him/asking him to do something/yelling at him hes about to fall off a cliff... nothing was done thoi and i think hes getting better at 'playing the game'

That's a bit more reassuring Nappies, thank you. She could be your DS3's secret twin

I just don't know. I have spent so long thinking I was a bad Mum who couldn't control DD, and now that pre-school have raised concerns everyone else is saying - yeah, they're right.

Why couldn't they have said that when I was saying I was worried? Perhaps they didn't want to upset me, or thought I might take offense. I would have been relieved that they didn't think I just had no control.

I suppose I am jumping the gun, and just need to wait for the IC to assess her.

when is the assessment? id be interested to hear what the IC thinks tbh! its never occured to me that ds2 was anything other than, well, just ds2 really. i guess its hard to really get a feel over the internet, but it doesnt seem to me that your dd is particularly odd...

Hi Nappies,

Pre-school told me this morning that the IC is going to come and see her on 2nd October, so next Thursday, and then she will speak to me when I come to pick her up. Pre-school supervisor had previously said that I could attend, but I suppose she might think my presence could alter DD's behaviour.

I do have another couple of questions.

-Did your DC know that TV characters were not real at 2.9? DD gets really upset if 'Max' from the Tweenies goes off screen, and says "Hello" to him and waves when he comes on screen.

-Did your DC understand that songs or programs finished, and new ones start? She cries when a program finishes, or in church on a Sunday, she gets upset when one song finishes, until the next one starts.

-How did your DC react to loud and sudden noises? DD cries and clamps her hands over her ears if she hears the fire alarm, or motorbikes going by. But she loves me to use the hoover, etc, saying 'big noise' - the only thing I can think of is the fact that she doesn't know the other sounds are coming. It is a fairly recent development.

empathy/perception of others' feelings - Will come over and give me a kiss if i injure myself, will laugh along with you
-impulsiveness - Very - random behaviour often
-knowledge of whether something was 'naughty' and self-control to not do 'it' - knows something is naughty but has no self control not to do it
-likelihood to run off and play with taps in a bathroom - very high
-perception of danger - nil
-energy levels and understanding of 'down time' - High energy, whats down time
-concentration span - maybe 1-2 minutes if its something he wants to do
-interacting with other kids - good

norks, thank you.

I swing from 'nah, she's fine' to 'hmm'. I love her so much.

(I have a grim image in my mind now, having digested your username )

Update here