"guest" child won't look at me, or speak to me ... anything I can do?

[NotQuiteCockney]

We have a 3-year-old visiting. She's pretty good friends with DS2, and gets on with DS1, too.

She's always been a bit funny with me, tbh.

She won't look at me, and is covering her face if I'm in the room. I can hear her interacting fine with both DSes, so I can tell she's not distraught.

But it's a little bloody weird, isn't it? And it means I have to delegate DS1 to help her with the loo ...

I did mention to the mum that I was worried about toiletting, but it's fine. DS1 is discussing with her what she needs, I'll clean up the floor, she only weed on the bathroom floor, not on any carpets. (And she does have accidents sometimes, this isn't that strange for her, or indeed most 3-year-olds.)

She's not willing to talk to me or look at me, but I can work with that, as long as we're staying in. Thank god we have a big house!

I quite like the comments, you find interesting things about what they see as normal.

You know, I think I find this particularly difficult because this isn't the sort of parenting I was really raised with - if you're used to a more authoritarian model, even if you've rejected it, you still sometimes find yourself wanting to revert to it.

That egg chair is very popular.

Marina, have I ranted at you about climbing? How old is your DS? The climbing wall at the end of our road is v v v popular indeed with small children, and loads of fun.

Marina no one has ever liased with me first before DS goes to their house. I don't tend to tell people that he's selectively mute, partly because I don't want to label him or to have him hear anyone labelling him, I just assumed people would understand if he said nothing for the whole visit and then looked away when I picked him up and asked him to say thank you and goodbye.

He won't acknowledge people he knoews if he sees them out of contect either, so seeing a friend in town, he will just ignore them.

Sorry to hijack the threadNQC but should I tell his friend's parents and other people? I don't want people just getting annoyed or thinking he is rude?

No stress re hijack, it really was meant as more of a venting thread than a big concern thread.

I would possibly warn people, out of his earshot - you don't have to use the words 'selective mutism', but it's worth making it clear. I'm sure parents with shy kids would be understanding, but if they only have outgoing kids, they might take it personally, or not handle it well. Also, you no doubt know the best way to make him happiest and likely to interact with somebody?

I say this as someone who has two v outgoing kids, and is v v outgoing herself. I only know about selective mutism from here, maybe a bit from TV, and there's one boy at the co-op who is a bit like this - he does talk to non-family adults, but only after a while.

I assume your DS is happy to go over to other people's houses?

And I'm not sure I'd ask him to say anything, knowing he's unlikely to ... dunno ...

funnily enough his closest friends all seem to be very outgoing chatty things! Which I find a bit alien and a refreshing change from his silence

Ok I will try to let people know, they best way to get him to talk is to not ask him any questions or pt him in any situations where he has to talk, like saying hello or goodbye. The first time he ever said the word 'bye' was after his 5th birthday!

Sorry, it is just mightily frustrating for me sometimes, especially with friendly strangers, as he will literally tunr his back on them or lower his gaze if they talk to him

OMDB, I'd hate to think I'd upset you on this thread.
It's very different I know, but when ds was younger he had a problem with using loos in other people's houses. To be on the safe side, I did use to explain this to people when he went on playdates so that they understood how to help him. Never in front of him.
As far as our own visitor is concerned, her parents do tell people because then her dd's hosts can make sure that loud music is not played, crowded places are avoided if we are on an outing, and that the menu can be configured so that it includes dishes the child is happy to eat when when in company.
It's their choice to tell people though. In their situation I guess it has worked, because their dd has been able to have a good time in someone else's home - without her being self-conscious that it requires a bit of forethought on the family's part.
We are talking about older children here now though - 9-10.
For your ds, do you see anyone? Could you maybe ask his paediatrician or your HV for advice about broaching the matter, if you want? Tbh, if he is five and in Reception, playdates are going to be more and more in his life and you might want to think of a strategy that you are comfortable with in relation to them. If he hates the idea - easy, don't send him yet. If he is keen but anxious about speaking to other grown-ups, then maybe you can do more hosting than sending. HTH

oh yes, he loves going to his friends houses, and has always been very independant and easy to leave anywhere, not at all clingy.

Just silent!

hmmm, maybe he is a bit weird!

Same here re the outgoing children NQC. Dd would be up that climbing wall like a mountain goat, trilling instructions to all around her.
I feel for our sensitive little playdate friend so always make a big, hidden, effort for her.

I am totally used to children I don't know not talking to me, that's really standard. This situation is a bit different, given I've known her for at least two years, and she did used to talk to me!

It does sound frustrating, completely understandably!

DS1 does prefer less-chatty children, which makes sense, because with two like him, we'd run out of oxygen.

Oh, now our guest is maybe talking to me, I got drawn into an ill-advised game, and saw her face, and it was ok.

thanks NQC and Marina, your posts have made me feel a bit better.

He's always off on playdates, I just hope the parents understand that he's not being rude by not thanking them or saying goodbye, but maybe a quick word with them out of earshot would be a good strategy from now on, to reassure then, if nothing else, that just because he says nothing doesn't mean he's not enjoying himself or happy.

I think his friends are used to him not tlking now, and do all the talking for him!

and NQC yes your situation with the little girl does sound a bit different! Glad she let you look at her just now!

What's all the talk of climbing walls? DS is a very keen climber, he's certainly not timid or nervous, just silent!

OMDB, a mate of mine has a dd with selective mutism (although they never used the term). She would rarely speak to anyone outside her immediate family, or even to her family if other people were around, including her class teacher.

She is now 7 and although still rather quiet, will chat briefly to unfamiliar adults, and is fine with most children.

They are all weird, frankly. There are no-non-weird kids.

DS1 will talk to anyone, go off with anyone. I've mentioned the option of residential summer camp in Canada to him, and he is totally up for it. The headmaster's note on his last school report mentioned the chats they have at lunch - DS1 just goes and sits with him, and chats with him.

One of his best friends is home-educated, not brave at all with strangers, but very chatty and comfortable with me, and so competant, he comes to me and says, 'NQC, I'm feeling a bit tired, can you call my mum?'.

Oh, the climbing walls are because there's a climbing wall at the end of our road, I'm trying to lure Marina around again.

Not quite cockney, my DD is quite irrational about who she talks to, I'm sure it's nothing personal.

OMDB my DD is 4 and very like your DS. She's chatty and full of fun at home but won't talk at all to new people, she took a term to talk at nursery but is much better now. I can't work out if it's chronic shyness or something else, should I see a heath visitor, I am anxious not to have her "labelled". Does your DS dislike appearing in plays etc too?

It is hard with new people especially as old ladies seem to make a beeline for us and then she ignores them - I struggle to know how to deal with it, I haven't had her on any playdates other than with people she knows unless I've been there as I think it would be too hard to her and the host - am I being too precious - I do have older DC's but they are outging. Sorry if its a thread hijack - just hadn't seen it mentioned before and do worry about her....

She's doing better now, seems a bit more able to be around me.

She hasn't really eaten, but I'll make a smoothie soon, which should fix that. She's not slept, at least - her mum would rather she didn't.

OMDB - I would much prefer to know that a child was selectively mute, or preferred not to speak / be spoken to - or anything at all that helped me make sure the child was as happy as possible whilst with me.

My 6yo DS can be like this - but he has mild Asperger's, which wasn't diagnosed until last September. I'm not saying she has Asperger's, but I should imagine that the way of handling it is the same... with my DS any adult has to gain his trust, although some he seems to just take to naturally. Others if they have something he is interested in, he might go to them once he feels confident enough to speak to them. What he loves are trains and maps. So for him, a map would mean that he would go up to an adult and talk to them about the map and want to see it, and gradually open up when he sees they aren't scary .

Maybe take a similar tack? Find something shes interested in, play with it yourself and wait for her to come to you?

that's reassuring mercy, DS is certainly getting better. He mainly seems to be terrified of talking if there is any expectation placed on him to talk (so all questions directed to him are met with silence).

Hopeless yes DS does not take part in plays, even as a toddler he hated a singing and dancing class I took him to and would refuse to participate. It took him two terms at nursery bewfore he would talk to any of the adults! but onyl tweo weeks at school.

Blu I think in that case I will inform any future playdate's parents in advance, so they are at least warned!

oh and hopeless, my way of dealing with it is to not deal with it, i.e. not ever comment on the fact that he doesn't speak (although in fact I have a few times got cross with him for not speaking, which I know is not going to help the situation), and never make a big deal out of times when he does talk lots incase it scares him back into his shell, and never try to force him to speak. When I pick him up from friend's houses, and ask him to say thank you and goodbye, I model what I want him to do by saying it myself but never trying to make him say it or standing there until he does iuswim, if he makes eye contact with his hosts I count that as a big success!

do you still shave your head, nqc?

Oh, that sounds like a reasonable way to deal with it, to me, anyway.

Aitch, no, I don't, any more (see a range of threads saying 'oh shit, now I have hair, what do I do with it?' ) - maybe that's the problem, maybe she doesn't like me with hair?

could be, if it's a recent development. maybe she thinks the nice bald lady has been kidnapped?

Naw, I've had hair for a while, now.

Seriously, her mum was quite embarassed about it all, I don't think this is normal for her ... the hitting phase wasn't just at me, but this might be?

I've got her for a bit tomorrow, but with a whole group of co-op parents, so who knows how that will go ...

PMSL at aitch raising the coiffure issue
Whenever dd is being twitted for her short hair I just say, tut, short is NQC, the nice Canadian lady with the comic books and the mezzanine, and she agrees