Bum Shuffler to Walker - when?

[Bumblelion]

I am not unduly worried, but thought I would just put this question to see if any other babies are in the same situation as my DD2.

Brief history (which I seem prone to do a bit too often) ... everything fine until baby failed 8 month development check on both counts of fine motor skills and gross motor skills - wouldn't pick things up, unable to sit, not crawling, etc. etc. Was referred to local hospital where they picked up she had a funny shaped head and thought she was crooked. After brain scan and spine scan, spine scan fine - not crooked at all but brain scan showed signs of synostosis (where plates in the head fuse too early). Further brain scan showed synostosis has not affected her development at all (the synostosis is not that noticeable, people can only see it when I point it out to them). She is being referred to Great Ormond Street for second opinion but am still awaiting appointment - 3 months later!!

Anyway, at the age of nearly 15 months, she can sit unaided (has been able to since 9 months) but can't get into a sitting position from laying down. If she sit her up, she will sit there for a very long time. If lying on her back, she can roll to her front (and back again) and kicks her arms and legs but doesn't move anywhere (she is great in the swimming pool - I think she may be swimming before she is walking!). She bum shuffles across the floor and can get around quite easily/quickly this way.

If you stand her up, she will now walk by just holding onto my small finger as just a bit of support and, on Sunday, actually took 2 steps between me and my mum.

BUT ... she cannot pull herself up to standing position from sitting position, can't get into sitting position from lying down (she is nearly there, but can't quite grasp what she is supposed to do).

What I am wondering is:-

(1) How will she learn to sit up if she doesn't crawl - a baby just normally pushes themselves back from a crawling position and then they are sitting up.

(2) How will she learn to walk if she cannot pull herself up to a standing position. As I said, if I stand her up, then she will walk, but she cannot get there on her own.

Anyone else had a late developer who didn't crawl.

DS wasn't as late a devoloper but could walk before he crawled or bum shuffled or could pull himself up. He started furniture walking at 10 months and by 12 months could walk between pieces but if he fell over he was stuck! He firstly learned to pull himself up with the furniture (well actually me as a piece of furniture first time). Then he learned to crawl to the nearest piece of furniture to pull himself up! Then aged about 15/16 months he finally realised he could just get up off the floor. It got to the point where he would crawl to a discarded jumper or rug and use that to pull himself up (as it was slightly raised from the floor in his mind ). Obviously he could do it but just didn't realise he could!

Obviously this addresses your point two more than one because DS wasn't a crawler. He's never been that agile although his fine motor skills are much better. I guess they find their own ways around problems. But definitely encourage your DD to walk round the furniture and from one piece to another.

At the moment, every spare opportunity I get, I get either my mum or my elder daughter to sit/stand just a short space away and we try to encourage my youngest daughter to walk between us two. Mostly she goes from holding my finger to grasping my mum/daughter's finger, but once or twice she has managed to take 2 steps before reaching out again.

Because she is a "late developer" and also a very big baby (size 18/24 month clothes - above 95th centile for length/weight/head circumference), she is being monitored by my local hospital. She was referred there at 8 months, had a follow up at just before 12 months and is due again in February. Hopefully, as long as there is even a slight advance in her development, everything will be fine.

My ds is slightly different to your daughter Bumblelion, but he never crawled and though he's now 16 months and only walking since Christmas (now very confident though still falls over, of course), he still can't crawl (his legs just splay out behind him and he does that swimmy thing you describe - that was his only attempt at crawling too!), but he has in the last couple of months learned to get from sitting to standing by leaning forward on his hands, wriggling his feet behind him, pushing up in the yoga downward dog (IYKWIM) a sort of inverted v - then pushing himself back into a crouch and then standing. It sounds more complex than it is. To sit up he usually hauls himself up on the furniture - he's still not great at this. Or he rolls onto his front and does the scooting, invert v thing I described above. He has to be really motivated to bother! When I left him to cry in his cot once he got very cross and managed to stand up in it. This was a big deal for him. But he walks beautifully (once they start it's usually very quick I think) and has started climbing the stairs very fast and giggling with pleasure. I know you've had so many problems and worries in the last year, so I'm happy your daughter is making such great progress with her sitting and walking. I think she sounds fine and will get there in the end. She'll just take a little longer, that's all. And I'm sure she'll never crawl - it's probably too babyish for her

My daughter is 14 months and also a bum shuffler (which she started doing at 12 months). She started sitting unaided at 8 months. She cannot get herself into a sitting position from lying down and cannot pull herself up and also is not keen on standing when you hold onto her hands. She has no interest in trying to walk/ I am not especially worried as I had a friend whose son was very similar and didn't walk until 20 months. My daughter is really quite chubby and I wonder whether her lack of mobility relates to her size as in all other respects (clapping, waving, trying to say Daddy etc) she is doing fine. With babyish hair and great rolls of fat, she really is starting to look like the world's biggest baby.

Bells2, you have just described my DD2 to a "tee". She is also a very large baby - not really chubby, just very, very long and BIG. She also still has her "baby" hair but does babble "mum mum mum mum", "dad dad dad dad", "nan nan nan nan". I know she will get there eventually, but I am now thinking she may be the biggest non-walking baby in the world.

My DS never crawled either but would bum-shuffle very efficiently for months, from about 9 months until 14 months, until he learned to walk. He never crawled and it was so funny to watch him scooping along the floor. I can't remember how he managed to sit himself up but it would seem crawling is not necessarily a stepping stone to these skills. My HV told me that 15% of babies never crawl (whether this is true or she made it up to comfort me is another thing). He was also a v. large baby, always at the top end of the chart.
Anyway, he's now 28 months, tall and a lot leaner than he was as a baby. As soon as he started walking he lost all the extra babyfat. I know there are other potential issues here with your dd Bumblelion, but I wouldn't worry about a lack of crawling, it didn't hold my ds back in any way.

I dunno Bumblelion, I would put my money on my "Tubs" for that title!. Rather naughtily we put her in DS's toy pushchair, just wearing a nappy and took a photo of her beaming away. The result is hilarious - she looks like something from the Land of the Giants.

My ds is chubby too. Ooh, I do love his fat little legs. There's a fantastic Allan Ahlberg children's book called The Giant Baby and the illustration on the front of a giant baby in a little pram sounds just like your dd, Bells2. My ds is a great talker (has at least 40 words though doesn't use many at any given time!) but he has never been any physical hurry. I think 16 months is an average age to walk well.

There must be something about big babies and not crawling (or crawling late). One of my friends has a boy who was off the scale for weight, and near the top for height, and he still isn't walking, and has only recently started a limited amount of bum shuffling at 16 months. Yet all the early crawlers/walkers I know have a more whippet-like build. I'm sure that once they start walking they'll soon catch up, and will probably soon be at an advantage from extra height/weight/strength.

Sobernow, Sasha got a Vtech walker at Christmas and loves it. It doesn't seem to be strong enough to hold her weight at the moment and is a bit fast - when she holds it, it seems to run away, she can't keep up and she falls flat on her front. From going to not being able to bear weight on her legs at all at 8 months, she now stands very strongly. I know she will get their eventually, but deep down I suppose I am worried that there might be something "more" wrong with her.

Well my DS fits the pattern - he's a big baby too. Not particularly tall (about 70%ile) but quite stocky (about 95 %ile). I'm buying him age 3-4 vests. I used to stand him against the chair and hold out my arms and gradually moved further away. Also had him pushing baby walker, wooden trolley etc. At first I would have to be in front of it or it would run away and he'd be flat on his face. At 23 months he runs and falls and crawls all day.

Bumblelion our posts cross - coincidence they are both about babywalkers. I think it takes a bit of practice to get the balance right not to push it faster than the legs go. Maybe if you put a cushion or something in front of it that would slow the wheels down a little. Also ours went much slower on the carpet than on the wooden floor. Sorry for pointing out the obvious!

My dd is 12 months old, tiny, (below 3rd centile) developing well in all other respects, but bum shuffles expertly and refuses even to try and crawl. If she gets onto her front trying to reach for something she yells!. She can pull herself up into a standing position, and will walk if holding on, but doesn't have the balance to walk independently yet.She can't yet get into a sitting position without help though. You're not alone!

I truly don't believe that 'training' babies to walk (either by helping them or giving them walkers etc) is of any use at all.I only used to let my ds walk holding my hands because he loved it, not because I thought it would help him walk sooner. In the Nanny Knows Best Book (written by a lovely old lady - a kind of much less bossy Gina Ford who was a nanny from the thirties and looked after lots of children) there is no point to it as walking is as natural as breathing etc and we all, disabilities excepted get there eventually. She had one little boy who never crawled, bumshuffled or moved at all until he was two, when he got up and walked across his nursery. It's hard not to worry but as others have said, crawling is NOT a milestone and has no special developmental importance. If she is bumshuffling (better than crawling as it keeps hands free and lets her see better, surely?) and can walk when helped with her balance, she's fine. Babies learn to do things at different rates. I think 12months is very early to walk, isn't it? I know you have special reasons to worry Bumblelion, but it certainly seems as if your dd is powering ahead now and well on her way to walking.

I think you're probably right Aloha. But I think some of the other things we do (not just holding hands) are fun especially if the child is enthusiastic. As I said I would prop DS up against the chair and hold out my arms and he would walk to me, run the last couple of steps and dive into my arms and we'd end up both rolling on the floor laughing. So OK he would have still learned to walk but I don't think this can have harmed his development as also the baby walker (push along type not sit in) didn't.

My other two children walked at 11 months and 13 months, but neither had a baby walker. Because my DD2 didn't bear weight on her legs at her 8 month check, my HV actually told me to buy her a baby walker as this would help her bear her weight. She is only in it for about 10 minutes at a time, but she loves it - uses it mostly for balance and support rather than sitting in it and scooting around the floor, IYKWIM. I was very anti-baby walkers and I only bought one on my HV advice. She said that although there has been a lot of bad press about them, she thought that, for my DD2, it would be a good thing - and it certainly has been.

DS2 was a bum-shuffler who never crawled. He was born at 31 weeks but didn't seem to suffer any major disabilities though he was slow in his development (motor skills, speech etc). I don't remember when he first started sitting himself up or when he started pulling up to standing but he didn't actually walk properly on his own until he was 19 months and was put on the 'review' list at his 2 year assessment because his walking was still a little primitive. He could race round the room at a fair old speed on his bottom and never once tried to crawl. The movement was by sticking his feet out and then pulling his bottom towards them IYSWIM. Just for the record, DS1 walked at 17 months and DD was about 16 months, both crawled and were 4 and 2 weeks prem. All were skinny babies - if it makes any difference, but DS2 was probably the chunkiest though still much below average on the weight chart.

I'm not criticising and I'm certainly not against anything that babies enjoy - my ds had a pushalong dog he is very fond of - I just wouldn't personally expect it to help them achieve anything they wouldn't do anyway. But I it is different if you are concerned about developmental delay and you have advice from your HV. Probably I worried less because he's done everything but crawl and passed his tests OK. He's just lazy like his mum, I expect!

My DS did not crawl until 11 months and was relatively late to walk - 17 mo nearly, but still within the perameters of "normal". The myth that all babies walk at 1yr is just that. Turns out he has very soft joints and so is stil at 3.5 not brilliant at eg hopping, jumping etc tho very enthusiastic. He also used to fall over a lot but he seems to have grown out of that. I appreciate that your DD has other problems Bumbelion but wouldn't worry about late/no crawlign at all - as others have said it is not a developmental essential which is why there is no time when they are "supposed" to do it. I know a number of babies who bum-shuffled and because they could see so well what was going on, felt no urgency to get up and walk - but all walk in the end.

Pamina - sensible at 22 months? Your neighbour was a lucky woman!

I think I had a misunderstanding because I was talking about the kind of babywalker that you push along rather than the sit in type which sees to be what bublelion meant.

Sasha has got both the hold-on walker and the sit-in walker (sit-in walker is what the HV recommended).

I can see that she has no inclination to walk/crawl as she also bum shuffles rather well - also, stretching her legs out and then shuffling her bum forwards to meet her legs.

My ds never crawled and bum-shuffled till he walked at 15 months. He never rolled over and wasn't inclined to pull himself up till just a week or so before he walked. He just suddenly decided to do it and it went quite quickly from there. However there was no cruising round the furniture which other babies do.

He was an extremely effective bum-shuffler and didn't use his hands, just dug the sides of his feet into the ground, pushed down and slid his bum forward. His arms were upwards and he kind of thrust them down to gain momentum. I tried to do this myself and found it very difficult but extremely good for the stomach muscles!

He hated being on his front and would often get stuck in this position although he eventually learned to move onto his knees and then sit up from there. He was small for his age so size and bum shuffling doesn't always follow a pattern.

There is a baby at our local mums and toddlers who isn't sitting up yet and she is 9 months. Her mum says her other 2 kids were late - they have quite big heads and long backs.

Hope all goes well with your dd.

Eulalia, your ds sounds a lot like my dd - so far as hating being on tummy, not rolling over or cruising. Dd sat at 8 months, sat herself up at 11 months, commando crawled at 12 months, crawled on all 4's at about 14m and took her first steps at 17 months. She was 18 mnths before she walked confidently alone. She had poor muscle tone even as a baby...she was finally diagnosed with dyspraxia at age 5, which is a motor planning difficulty, ie they have trouble getting the order of body movements sorted out in their minds, then have difficulty carrying them out. It is mostly her gross motor which has been affected - her fine motor skills have come in leaps and bounds in the past 12 months. (She is now 6.) OT helped a LOT.

It does sound as if your dd has poor muscle tone in her legs bumblelion - unless it is just the size factor as others have mentioned. Maybe some muscle strengthening things would help...has your HV recommended anything? Does she spend much time on her tummy? You would be amazed how quickly things can happen. I swore at 16 months that dd was never going to walk - and got so sick of people at playgrp etc saying "Isn't she walking yet?" Grr. Maybe she just needs motivation to stand up. Have you tried putting her favourite toy up on the back of the couch so she has to pull herself up to reach it? Sorry I know you have probably tried it already.

Ds was a shuffler, one leg tucked under his bum, and one knee, two hands to do the rest. It looked very odd but he got quite fast at it - never did the 2 hands 2 knees thing, and he's fine. I was a bumshuffler myself apparently, very proficient too!

Anyway, not sure what Great Ormond St is (specialists?), but hopefully it will be of some help and reassurance to you - the coming weeks will fly past and before you know it, she will have it all figured out! Good luck and do let us know.