Does Tiny Tearaways ever seem appealing?

[mypandasgotcrabs]

And I don't mean just in a rare tearing yor hair out moment, I mean when everyday yo can't cpe with your childs behaviour, when you end up locking yourself in a room to get away from the screaming, fighting and destructiveness?

I've lost 'friends' because of ds2s behaviour. Note I say 'friends', cos real friends would try and support me, not run a mile when they actually witness his behaviour first hand. I describe his behaviour to people and they say he's just a normal toddler, then they see him, and are so shocked and can't get away fast enough.

What does he do that's so dreadful?

How old is he?

I think many parents have looked at their toddlers and thought "There is something WRONG with this child"!!!! but 99% of the time there isn't, they're normal...and there is usually a way of dealing with them. It's just finding the ways to suit you and the child.

I think there are other things to try before TT! Why not try Parentline Plus? I don't have the number offhand but you could google it...they have a helpline and can advise I believe on ANY area of parenting, and they also have leaflets and info etc. I think they might be a good starting point.

Also locally you should have or be having soon a children's centre (often in / near your local school) where you can drop in for advice and they should run info sessions for parents etc and often provide an outreach worker who can come to you at home.

I believe there are ways of dealing with every toddler (sorry to be so perkily optimistic )and if there isn't a way after you've tried every trick in the book then maybe that's the time to go to the GP and investigate further as to whether there's a difficulty there somewhere.

He's 2.8

He's a bully. He hits, bites, pinches, headbutts, shoves. A couple of weekends ago we were out with a friend and her dd. They are the same age, althoug she is a lot smaller than him. We went to the farm, he was wonderfully behaved, ten we wen across the road to wear they have a lot of open space, gardens etc. Within minutes he's shoved her around, and was hitting her. But he just found it funny. He laughed at what he's done. Laughed at eing told off. Laughed at her being upset. He constantly beats up his older brother. He has quite a few scars from where he's been bitten. He finds this funny.

He smashes windows, I had to cut the bannister last week as he'd got his head stuck in it. While I'm trying to sort out one mess, hell be off in another room making triple the amount of mess. It's totally got on top of me now and I've just left it. I want to get everything away so that he can only get to certain things & have others one ata time, e.g. lego, jigsaw puzzles etc, but as we've only just moved I'm still sorting stuff out. This isn't recent behaviour since we've moved, he has always been like this.

I had a homestart volunteer until recently and she was a huge help with helping me tidy and keep him out of the way. I'm thinking of asking for her back as I'm just really not coping with him.

Yesterday we were out and he saw a baby, went to her gave her cuddles, patted her hair! and gave her kisses, tried holding her hand to help her walk. He can be the most amazing little boy, and unrecognisable from the monster I see.

Jekyll & Hyde is how my dad describes him & he's spot on.

Part of his problem then is how you're thinking of him. He is NOT a bully, he's a toddler! I know that when they behave so badly we feel angry and resentful of them; but IMO you have to let that thought go. He's really not a bully. He is child a child of two, who needs boundaries and consequences to show him when he's done nasty stuff.

Just because he laughs at being told off or at what he's done does not make him nasty or a bully; it makes him TWO. They don't, can't, at this age have the emotional maturity to put themselves in other's positions, or to 'care' very much about being told off.

Words = not TOO powerful with a two year old. Actions = better. As in, if he's hit someone with a toy, the toy is put away. If he's bitten or whatever, he goes in his room for a minute.

It doesn't matter if he laughs or shows remorse. All that matters is that you're TEACHING him consequences to his actions. That's what is happening at this age; you're teaching and he is learning.

I do recognise that feeling of clearing up one mess while they make another somewhere else....Get the homestart volunteer back AND get a home visit from the Children's centre - use what's out there! ARe you on your own or is there a DP/DH? He sounds a livewire to cope with on your own!

Have a really good look at his diet, mypanda.

My DS2 was similar to how you describe your DS2 at that age.

It turned out his was allergic to gluten, wheat and dairy.

Also that he was very sensitive to colourings, flavourings and sweeteners.

He also needed a very firm set of boundaries.

He liked (and still likes) to know what is going to happen, and when, so he had a visual timetable, which helped.

We followed the penny reward system when he was a bit older (about 4). Think you can read about it if you google Warwick Dyer.

But for us, finding out about the food allergies was the key.

It's certainly worth checking out.

Just replying as I see things, so not ignoring other points...Honoria - I always thought he was just a 'normal' toddler, it's others telling me that he's not. I had a spell of people asking me if he ADHD or Aspergers, I kept telling them that he was just a 2yr old, but after the 5th person in a fortnight asked the same thing, it kinda got to me!

good idea from Bette about the food, that has reminded me that DS at this age was extremely sensitive to things like Squash or things with lots of sugar. He became like a different child, very hectic, climbing the walls practically and I worked out that this was after plagroup where they served squash!

Also agree with Bette about firm boundaries. I hated it when I had to get really firm with ds or put him in his room as a consequence, it made me feel really churned up doing it but DH said to me and really MEANT it that "Boys NEED boundaries, they don't just like them they NEED them, they need to physically feel where the boundary is and then they can learn" and what with him being a boy I decided to go with that! (He also worked a long time in a boy's school so was very familiar with their behaviour).

re childrens centres, yes there are quite a few round here. Have been using them for some time. Has been great for giving me a bit of time out while he's been in the creche & also found the people who use them (they are all on council estates) just don't judge, whereas if I go to a toddler group close to where I live, I get hounded out & given filthy looks because all the other children are perfect . I can relax when I go to those groups, whereas a local toddler group I'm always tense. I expect he icks up on that though.

I have been to the parent power groups that they have run, but everything that's been reccommended I have already tried to death.

I think a child who is either having food allergies as Bette describes, or a child who hasn't had firm enough consequences to give them an understanding of boundaries, or a child who is left to amuse themselves for hours on end (not saying this is you panda just what I've observed) or a child who has ALL of those things going on at once, can LOOK like a child who has ADHD or something!

But they can be turned around IME, you just need perhaps to find out what the 'key' is with your ds. If you try everything though and he's no different then yes I think it's always worth considering asking the GP for an opinion/referral to investigate other things.

what's your gut feeling panda - are there things that could be changed or in your heart of hearts do you think there could be something else going on?

I know he's not really a bully, just after the ;ast couple of days I've had with him, I've been ready to kill him I really have. Yes, am on my own, although actually find that easier mostly than when I was with xp. As xp never offered any support, physically or emotionally, he just smacked him if he did anything wrong, which would make me angry and upset and obviously doesn't help the situation and just makes things worse. Yes it's hard dealing with him on my own, but a lot easier than before.

I will have a look at his diet, I've always argued that diet isn't a factor as he's like it from the second he wakes, so it's not like I'm pumping him full of coke & haribo! But if it's perhaps an allergy or intolerance to a food type, then that's worth looking into.

don't forget then that some of his behaviour could be down to the change in his life - XP being there, then not being there, and being dealt with in the way XP did can't have done him alot of good (I'm not saying he has been harmed forever by smacking, what I mean is that being dealt with that way won't have actually TAUGHT him anything useful about how to behave IYSWIM and it was obviously upsetting for you as well which can't have made for a happy atmosphere)

You sound well rid, btw, but it could be another explanation of his somewhat wild behaviour. Might be worth just making allowances for that?

My gut feeling is that he's a 2yr old boy! I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with him. I just don't understand why he behaves the way he does. If I was just letting him amuse himself all day long, I could understand it, but I don't. We do things together, whether it be going out on his scooter, down to the park, or drawing together, playing a game together.

He kind of flips suddnely, like the farm example with my friends dd, it was so sudden, like a switch had been flipped. We looked at what he'd eaten & drank while we were there too, and we'd had salad, a sandwich & fresh fruit juice.

We can be playing a game, or he could be playing with his brother. It'll be nice & then like a switch has been flipped, he'll suddenly change and sink his teeth into me/ds1, suddenly get up and headbutt us, or start throwing something.

When he smashed the windows int he house, he hadn't been left for ages, I had gone to the toilet. Literally, they were playing, I went upstairs, I then heard the sound of smashing glass, ran down the stairs to the sound of more glass smashing.

Meant to add on that last post, that I have thought about having a firm routine with him. Do you think that could be a possibel solution? And how do I go about setting that routine? More for me than for him, as I'm really not a routine person. I tend to go with the flow, take things as they come, I don't like having to have a strict, rigid timetable to follow.

i have routine with dd1 she really responds to it it is a v strict routine and im like you not a routine person at all but trust me its worth the effort!

hers is
7:00am up
7:15-7:45am breakfast
7:45-8:00am dressed
8:00-9 reading time
9-10am learning games (bbc bitesize keystage 1 games)
10-11:30 free play
11:30 lunchtime
12:30 nursery
3:10 pick up from nursery take to dance class
4:30pm free play while i do dinner
5:00pm dinner time
6:00pm tv time
6:30 clean up toys
7:00pm bath
7:30 milk and supper
7:45 story
8:00pm bedtime

she seems to be a lot better behaved when she knows what she is supposed to be doing!!

if that fails send him round here my dd1 will sort out his bullying

me; what have you done now
dd; i have got a baloon
me; where from?
dd; the little boy who took mine off me wouldnt give me it back when i asked him to like you said
me;so what did you do?
dd;i headbutted him and he dropped it

the little boy in question was three years older than her!!!

Ahh -I think you've hit on something there.

Routine can be HUGELY important for some children. My ds was one - he would get VERY fractious if we had a 'free and easy' day.

This is what our routine was at your DS age. FWIW!

He woke up early so we were up and having breakfast by 6.30am/7am at the latest.

He sat in his booster seat for breakfast in the kitchen and I sat with him (no telly at this point)

Then after breakfast, I got him dressed and we played in the living room, including about half an hour of telly (cbeebies!)

Each and every morning we went SOMEWHERE, whether that was playgroup, the park, swimming, whatever.

After that, home for a nap. It was at this age that he started to not want this so much so I gave him some quiet time in his room. When he started hating that I just allowed him to nap in the car on the way home from wherever - I drove around a bit more.

Afternoon he had a snack and more playtime and he was usually ok because he'd been out and wasn't too bored. Often he had a bath in the afternoon as he loved 'playbaths'

Dinner time was about 5pm again in his booster away from the telly.

Straight after dinner it was into pyjamas, then milk and a story and bed.

I am not saying to follow that BTW just to show that we were very routine bound! However DS needed it and it worked and I believe made him quite a secure child - I do think many, many children benefit HUGELY from knowing 'what's coming next'.

I definitely think you might have found the 'key' to your ds there......

Right, thanks both for those ideas. Will defo tke smething from them & see how we go. I should probably have spotted it a long time ago as he is very strict on his bedtime routine. He will not sleep unless everything is done in the right order...

We go to his bedroom, put his cup at the top of his bed, pull hte curtains, put his nappy & pyjamas on, then we go to bathroom, brush his teeth, back to bedroom, he chooses 2 books, we read them, then it's light out & i'll usually have to go up to him twice, 2nd time so he can go for a wee, then he's off to sleep. If anything is forgotten, or in the wrong order, he's a nightmare to get to sleep until that is done.