Speech therapy diagnosis- a bit confused.

[mummyloveslucy]

Hi my daughter has speech therapy for what I thought was suspected verbal dyspraxia. After talking to the Speech therapist, she says that she now thinks it is a phonological disorder instead, as she is responding too well to treatment for it to be verbal dyspraxia. She also said that the treatment for both conditions is the same anyway, so it dosn't really matter. I was just interestedto find out what the difference is between the two?
She is very keen to communicate and can concentrate for long periods of time so fingers crossed she will be o.k. I wish I knew for sure though.

Hi Mummyloveslucy,

in simple terms Verb D= difficulty coordinating muscles involved in speech sound production (often adults who have had a stroke maybe left with Verbal dis. Can also be developmental and children can 'grow out of it in teens)

P.D= difficulty with identifying and or producing speech sounds in words. this can in part due to motor planning diffs but not because of a specific difficulty with the coordination of muscles.

some of the treatment will overlap i.e. lots of repetition/ practice but two very different disorders and should be recognised as such.i.e. with Verb dis lots of work would go into strengthening speech muscles and coordination of.. not nec for P.D

ask your SLT if she can explain the difference and what impact the diffs would have on her planning.her explanation should allow you to see if she knows what to do.

must add with Verb dys children need support ++ and won't just 'grow out of it' easily (worried in case I sounded flippant b4)

great that your DD is responding well to tpy.

good luck

What age is your dd? Does she have any words? My son is 2 and a half and he only has two words, Mama and hiya.

I was looking up on the internet and I stumbled upon Verbal dyspraxia and thought, hmm, does he have that, but when you describe the PD thing, that rings a bell with me too.

Sometimes I see him literally trying to shape his mouth but nothing comes out.

I'm attending a Hanen course at the moment, and he's been assessed and I've been told he's a top priority, so at the mo,I'm waiting for a letter .......... ??!

Anyway, just posted really to let you know that there are other mumsnetters on tenterhooks awaiting first words!

Thanks, I was pleased to hear that it's probubly not verbal dyspraxia because I've heared that the underlying problem remains throughout your life.

Yes, my daughters language abilities are advanced, she can chat away in complex centences but it is very difficult to understand her as she dosn't make the right sounds. She is very expressive in other ways too. She backs up her language with hand movements, facial expressions and gestures. She loves communicating and interacting and tries so hard. She is 3 years and 4 months.

Can YOU understand her? AT least that would be something! At least she has another 14 months 'til school. Will she go in to reception sep 09? My son is due to start sep 10 but I don't think he'll be ready. However, there are millions of special needs teachers in the school and at the moment nothing seems to be happening! Despite his having been assesed...

My little guy is starting to invent his onw sign language too, and I was trying to discourage it, and for example, if he wants a drink I was waiting for him to make a sound, any sound, while pointing at the cupboard. But I was told yesterday to acknoledge the sign language to, as it validates his efforts to communicate. All confusing really. I don't want him to slip in to a rut of using all these little hand signals! It's not even proper sign language! Just something he's invented himself!! I have to pretend I don't know what he means. Or at least, that's what I've been doing... apparently that was wrong

Also, because the knowledge of language is advanced, it makes her very frustrated a lot of the time as people can't understand her but she knows exactly what she's trying to say and what's said to her. I have nentioned macaton to her speech therapist but she thinks that Lucy's language is too advanced for this.

how frustrating! How often is she seeing a salt? Do you come out of the sessions thinking "well, we made some progress there". I never had that feeling. I feel like my son has been assessed a million times and that's it. Now they've told me he's in dire need of help and they're not coming back to me!!!

In general, I can understand about 80% of what she says. That's just me, my husband dosn't understand that much and members of the family struggle. People who don't know her understand about 5% I'd say.
She has good days and bad. If she's moodey, tired or stressed It makes her very hard to understand. (which is of destressing to her).

It must be. She's speaking and yet only you can really understand her. I'd say that's more frustrating for a child than not speaking and getting frustrated. My son understands everything, and he knows he's no words iykwim. So he doesn't expect to be able to communicate as precisely.

OH! I hope he is going to start school in 2 yrs time not a bother..... I know he's 'mainstream' mentally (sorry what is the correct terminology?) but I just worry that he won't be ready, he won't be able to chat with the other children.

Who knows, I should cross that bridge when I come to it really.

In september 09 she will be going in to "Transition" This is still in the nursery building and they have severel lessons in the primary shool to ease them in for a year. This is like reception I guess. She will get her uniform at 4.5 years but will go in to the primary school at 5.5. It's a small school.

Hi you two. Moondog is a very experienced SALT who often posts (usually on SN) who could help you with some of your queries I'm sure. My DS is 4 now and was exactly as yours is greenelizabeth but understood nothing. He's made huge strides but I'm still terrified of the schooling thing.

I'm sure its really positive that your boy is trying to communicate with signs - mine never wanted to. I know that most kids who sign with speech delays eventually turn them into words, so it doesn't make it worse, it makes it better IYSWIM.

Thanks shells, that's reassuring. Does your son speak now, but with a more limited vocab than other four yr olds/?

Hi greenelizabeth. At 2.6 my dd had two words. No and no way

She had no problems understanding language or communicating non verbally, but she just didn't talk. When she did start (around 2.7 or 2.8), it just came out in sentences. She had some problems with clarity, everything starting with 'h' - plenty of humping and whoring (that would be jumping and drawing) but that resolved reasonably quicky and at 4.4 she has no discernable problems, and is seen as pretty articulate by staff at her preschool.

Wow. Thanks FallenMadge, That's great. That's exactly what I want to hear.

Sounds like your little girl knows her own mind! My son is incredibly strong willed too. He is a little despot actually!, without ever uttering a word. It's amazing. I know if he wants his blind open or closed more, what flavour juice he wants, what cup he wants it in.... I'm not sure how I know all this but he does communicate imperceptibly. You just realise, I did what he wanted there, again, and he didn't say a bloody word.

Nice to hear about it sorting itself out.

Doesn't always I know, but it did for dd thank goodness. Hope your ds can get going soon too.

I remember talking to another woman at playgroup about DD going for hearing tests and assessments, and she said that it hadn't actually occurred to her that dd didn't talk because she was so communicative, but now I came to mention it...

GE my DS has a huge vocab now but is still quite 'disorded' in his speech and still way behind his peers. Speech therapy has helped a lot and he is getting there.
Your DS sounds like a good communicator. Thats half the battle.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for September then! (touch wood)

It is really common I know. All my aunts keep telling me about various cousins who didn't speak 'til they were three. So perhaps late talking runs in our family but skipped me.

I had to laugh about hearing tests. They insisted that my son have another one, just to tick the box you know!

But I put my phone on silent overnight, and I have it programmed to come back to normal at 7.00 and it makes one tiny quiet 'pip' and he hears that through the wall. But still I had to drag him in to town for a hearing test . ah well! Box ticked now! Appointment for SALT will come... SOON I hope.

Thanks Shells. I didn't realise that the plain urge to communicate (however) was such an important factor. That is v. encouraging.

Sorry OP, I've hi-jacked your thread here.

Not to be too disheartening, but DD was seen for an initial SALT assessment 7 weeks after referral and was put on the waiting list. 13 months later her first appointment came through

Blimey. Yes sorry MLL

mamabea sounded pretty expert to me though

I know by the time we get the appointment he'll be able to say "what took you so long?" HIMSELF!!