trying something new...would like comments and input from mn

[yawningmonster]

ok so ds is typical 3 to 4 year old but I have had enough.
today he came into our bed and started to kick and push to get more room so I asked him to stop when he didn't I removed him from the room and shut him out of our room which resulted in an hour long tantrum during which he weed on the floor. Once all was calm again we had a family talk and discussed some rules which we all agreed on and ds talked about what happens when you don't follow the rules so he was able to contribute to the process as well.
We came up with
We use gentle hands and bodies with each other...one warning then remove person to room
We use a talking voice and manners to ask for what we want...one warning no more discussion
We accept the answer to a request...one warning then remove to room (Having a problem with this one as when I ask ds to get his clothing on and he says no I have a problem however when I say no I want him to stick to it iykwim)
We will spend time together every day that we can as a family. DH is away alot so whoever is here is involved and when DH is here it is to be at 6pm during weekdays and anytime on weekends. We all made a list of activites to do to choose from.
We also wrote a list of all the things ds can do by himself such as
dress himself, go to the toilet by himself etc He will get a sticker for every one he does by himself and no comment when he requires us to do them. If he purposefully thwarts these things such as wetting the floor, stripping off his clothes or refusing to get dressed when we ask him, we will ignore as much as possible and get on with what we need to do, including putting him in the car naked or in pyjamas if necessary.
DS uses some of these areas to manipulate us and also treats me like his personal slave "take me to the toilet" ("I will take you when you ask me nicely") "please take me to the toilet" (ok thank you for asking nicely) "oh I don't need to go, you can take me again later" Anyway do you think this is ok, we have tantrums of up to a couple of hours, pleading, crying, shouting, throwing things, threatening to wee etc and I have had enough. We have tried everything else I can think of

He is much, much too young to understand all these rather draconian rules. I think you are actually being a bit barmy tbh. I can't think of a single 3-4yo who would 'get' any of this!

Tantrums are part and parcel of a young child's life, but I can't help thinking that you are making the situation much worse by thinking that he is treating you like a slave rather than just thinking that a 3/4 yo child is asking you to be a normal parent. Seems like he might have rather lower expectations of you than you have of him.

Poor child

FGS just help him a bit when he needs it, and don't let him take the piss, he will grow out of the tantrums.

thanks for the input
ok can you tell me how you would approach
Take me to the toilet...I don't need to go
Take me to the toilet....I don't need to go etc until he wets his pants and the
ds is dressed, I go to get something like the keys and come back to find him stripped again...
these things are things he can do by himself he has proved this several times but he would rather I do them for him, that is fine if he actually accepts the help it keeps the clothes on or goes and wees when he says he needs to

Those things sound to me like he is just wanting your attention. i would spend more time with him and gently chastise him when he is obviously taking the piss. Children are children, they can't be regulated to behave to a formula. They will frustrate you and misbehave, all you can do is to control how you react to the situation. Just take it as it comes and stop trying to control things.

ok it may sound stupid but how do I pay him more attention...I am a sahm, he is an only child. I spend the morning playing with him after breakfast, I try very hard to have uninterupted time with him. I make the morning snacks and we go out together (park, playdates etc) I spend time with him after dinner also...in fact it is very rare for him to play by himself
All I am talking about in my original post is some family rules (don't you all have these) just that they are written down and we asked his opinion on them
a book of all the great things he can do and rewarding him when he does them, if he doesn't no big deal and trying to ignore the tantrums and the attempts to undo things

Ah right, well in that case I suggest you perhaps ignore him some more. When he has a tantrum, walk away. Go to a different room and let him be.
Imo there is need to have family rules with a pre-schooler, as you will just be imposing them on yourself as he is too young to fully comprehend them.

ok thanks now to sound really stupid but maybe the attention I am giving is not adequate so how do I improve it
We spend time playing together after breakfast, after lunch, and after dinner...
I try to take his lead and play lego, playdough, trains, park, walks, hide and seek what ever...he doesn't seem to like to spend time alone and whenever I am not playing with him he is involved in what I am doing such as cooking or cleaning. (I try to make sure that these things don't dominate my time) On the weekends either all three of us spend time or just ds and I do, he is allowed to watch tv on the weekends if he wishes and we try to do an outing such as museum etc (again we ask him for his ideas of what to do)

Basically this obnoxious stage will pass x

does he go to playgroup or nursery.

does he go to playgroup or nursery.

sorry for some reason the first time I responded to that it didn't seem to work but it did after all.

I work 2 days a week for 5 hours each day when he goes to a cm, 2 other days a week we go to playgroup together for the morning. when at playgroup he still wants me involved in his play at all times (this is what I meant by treating me as a slave, he even has a tantrum if I go to the toilet when he would rather I play) thanks carmenere, I know it will pass but am trying to get through it while it is here and would like to know if what i am suggesting is ok and not draconian!!!

when does this obnoxious stage pass my dh is still just as obnoxious lol

the really sad thing is I work with children, I am even trained fgs just I can't handle this one very well. I even thought maybe working 2 days a week was having a negative effect and maybe I should be spending those days with him.

no handbook for parenting does he behave like this for the childminder

not sure about the toilet thing, but don't make a big deal out of it. if he wees, clean it and say nothing. he'll get bored if he;s doing it on purpose and getting no reaction. big praise when he actually does go, independently or asking you to take him in time. if he changes his mind just say 'ok, let me know when you are ready'. don't let him see you are stressed.

as for getting dressed, etc. you just need to be a bit cunning. things like 'i bet you can't get your clothes on before daddy opens his eyes......quick, let's trick him!' etc

it would be lovely for a child this age to do whatever asked, first time, but they ON THE WHOLE don't. It will pass. (I hope - my dd just turned 4).

he can do but generally saves most of it for me...

he is getting the reaction he wants not easy i know try ignoring bad?unwanted behaviour and only responding to good behaviour

dont hold your breath egypt my eldest is 15 still doesnt always do what he is told(he knows better)

that is basically what we are trying to do by having clear family rules with consequences, ignoring when possible thought that may mean putting him into the car naked if he has stripped off just before we are due to go out and rewarding positive behaviour with the stickers, our attention and family time

it will get better and i think you have to stick with it i know its hard i have 5 children but my sister lives with me so 6 at home in a very small 3 bedroomed house 3 of which have special needs and even they have rules.

thank you, was a little stung by soapboxes response and starting to doubt myself all over again

no dont the minute you doubt urself you will lose and children all children need rules life is all about rules now get some sleep and be afreshed ready for the next round lol

All children need rules but I do think your ds is a bit young to have the rules so clearly spelled out to him and be expected to remember them all the time. And I think he could potentially be scared by a big family discussion where he is asked his opinion- he is still such a little boy.

I would take him to the toilet when he asks me to, or when I think he needs it and just not worry about it. Just because he can dress himself I wouldn't necessarily expect him to do it every time; I often helped out while chatting or joking with mine when they were that age. They haven't grown up into ill-mannered tyrants at all.

You seem very worried about having your commands ignored or refused. Perhaps your ds senses this insecurity and gets stressed by it. Children like to believe that their parents are godlike beings who are above being stressed or frightened by their behaviour. A sense of humour and a calm belief that they will grow up all right is a great help.

I would try maybe to give fewer commands in this case. Children can be made to do a lot of things without even realising. And eventually they will get used to the idea of doing what they're supposed to.

I know lots of children who weed on the floor at this age (though thankfully not mine). I know it's maddening but don't think it's a big worry (except of course for your carpets...).

This bit really worries me, from one of your earlier posts:

"it is very rare for him to play by himself"

And it strikes me that this is at the root of your problem. Children do have to learn to entertain themselves, and create their own entertainment through using their imagination.

You are doing all of this for him. It's no wonder he wants you to do other things for him as well!

This is very, very controlling behaviour and your son is abdicating any responsibility for himself. Why should he bother, because you're doing it all for him!

And now you're making it even more controlling by putting in place a whole load of rules that he really won't understand.

Leave him more often to do his own thing and stop organising his life so much.

And if/when he kicks off, just walk away and ignore.