Pick up / Put down - Please explain

[SalBow]

Hello everyone,
Could someone please explain the pick up/put down method for teaching your children to sleep. Is it really that simple or do I need to buy the baby whisperer book?

Have you used it? Did it work? How long before you saw results?

Is there a minimum time before picking up again? Eg DS starts crying on his way back down to the mattress!
Do you leave the room between?

Thanks !

Hi SalBow,
Been reading with interest DD is 7mo and is a frequent night waker/feeder too. Have been thinking about sleep training so was waiting to see how it went for you. Sounds great so far. I wasn't looking forward to pupd as I'm worried about my back, how did you find that? My DD sleeps on her side or front and the first time I did the same as you but now I just think she would roll onto her back herself if she needs to. Keep posting your progress, be interested to know how you get on increasing day feeds. DD takes much more milk at night than day and doesn't seem interested in solids at all

how did it go last night salbow?

Hello again everyone! Sorry this is long again, there's so much to say!
Well last night went very well in that it is getting increasingly easier for DS to get back to sleep, mostly with no pickups now and very little or no crying! He did wake up quite a few times last night though. He also woke at 6.30 so I did the same routine until 7.00. He was very calm at that point and not quite back to sleep, so the fact he wasn't crying when I got him up at 7 probably helped to not reinforce that he gets up if he cries iyswim?

Naptime today has been amazing though! I put him down at 8.45am anticipating trouble as he only usually sleeps for 30mins and I was planning pu/pd to extend his nap, but I never needed to! He took 20 mins to get to sleep, but was just lying there calmly, then slept for 1hr25! I couldn't believe it!
I've just put him down for another and he rolled straight over and went to sleep in 2 mins! It really is miraculous!
Twinklymum, I can't recommend it enough! I've read somewhere on the BW website I think, that as babies get older, they may seem to settle better without the pickups, and I've definitely found this to be true. He also hates me stroking him but calms with lots of talking (repetitive, sleepy time, time to go to sleep), so you may find it's not too bad on your back after all. I now only pickup if he's really screaming / red and getting all hot (which doesn't really happen now!). Day feeds are going ok too, so hoping nightime will slacken off, or at least help me not to think he needs feeding every 2 hours at night like I have been!
Fizzylemonade, great to hear your success too!

I'm trying to get him on a proper E.A.S.Y .routine. Not quite sure what it should really be at his age (8 months). Is 2 naps of 1.5hours enough (I know it varies, but on average)? He seems really tired after lunch, but if he naps then, it's a long way to bedtime? Any advice welcome.

Sorry again for waffling on! (can you tell I'm a very happy mummy today?)

Hi Salbow,

In my experience with my dd, it did take a wee while for the frequent wakings to subside - even if it was much easier to get my dd back to sleep. So hang on in there - it really sounds like he'll get the hang of it soon.

best of luck

Salbow, this is great news! Isnt it such a relief my DH and I were shocked at how this worked so quickly if you stick to it. I think two 1.5hr naps are ok, although with both dds the afternoon nap was always longer.. However I would always wake my DD2 by 3.30pm at the very latest otherwise it was always difficult to get her to go to sleep in the evening. However you might find that the morning nap might get shorter and the afternoon one will get longer in time.

Hi Oonaghbhuna and travellerintime,
Yes, I'm not expecting him to suddenly stop waking at night, things are so much better than I could have hoped already. Daytime has been amazing,no more jiggling the big heavy lump to sleep and then having to sit still with him on me and the tv on silent while he naps! Also, I don't know what to do with myself in the evenings! He went down for a nap at 1.40 and was asleep in 6 minutes and slept for 2 hours! This evening he went to sleep in 3 minutes without a peep!
Thanks for following this, it's great to have support.

Hi Salbow, glad to hear still going well. I've come to that point where sleep training is a must. My DD has decided that she is not going to go to bed at all. We've totally lost our evenings together and now she spends most of the night in our bed, which would be fine except I just cannot sleep at all with her there as she is quite wriggley in her sleep, keeps waking and I'm paranoid she'll get squashed or under the covers. Not looking forward to it but we cannot carry on the way we are

Hi Twinklymum,
Poor you, I totally sympathise, same here. DH has been in separate bedroom for months and I've been co-sleeping with a wriggler. I can't tell you how good it is to have my bed back!
I'm still not sleeping however! I'm downing some wine now to help me sleep tonight!
Last night he slept 7-10, then woke 3.30 and 6.30. This is unheard of in our house.

I think you should just go for it! I was dreading it but wasn't nearly as bad as I thought. Prepare yourself though. The BW recommends that instead of taking turns, you should each do two consecutive nights so as not to confuse / stimulate baby. Cd your dh do the first two? By the third you may not have to do much picking up, save your back?

If not, get as much sleep as poss the night before, be prepared to be up all night, wear warm clothes, have partner on standby with cups of tea every hour! This really helped me psyche myself up for it!
And, whichever of you is most likely to "cave in" first with the crying, I recommend that they are the ones doing it to start. I found it much easier to be the one in the room rather than listening to it from outside (not that I'm a control freak or anything .

Good luck and let me know how you get on. Have you got the books, they are brilliant?
PS. DS just went down into cot, rolled onto side and was asleep! Unbelievable!

Hi Salbow, I am soooooooooo pleased it is working for you. Isn't it fab when you don't have to jiggle them anymore? I found ds went to two 1 1/2 hour naps during the day aorund htis time too. You will get your life back a bit now that you don't have to cuddle him while he naps, amazing what you can get done in that time.
the ohter brilliant thing about this technique is that if you get back into bed habits e.g if he's ill and needs more comfort, you can do pu/pd again once he's better and he'll get back into good habits much quicker (well that's what we've found anyway)

I decided to try it yesterday. First nap took 30 mins settling, 2nd nap took 20 mins. At 7.30 DD went straight down and didn't wake until 10.30! Thought this was fab! I fed her at this time and she went straight back down until 2. I fed her again and put her down, 5 mins later she was awake! I spent an hour trying to get her to sleep and then gave up (how rubbish am I??!!) I took her into out bed and she slept until morning, I'm so tired that I did actually sleep a bit.

I wasn't prepared for that at 2am when she had been so good until then. At least we had one evening together. She kept hanging on to my hair (ouch) and I had to keep putting the dummy back in and then she would pull it out she was hysterical. I'm not sure what to do now.

Hi Twinkleymum,
Sorry you had a hard night. It is hard isn't it? Especially in the middle of the night when you exhausted and it's so easy to just take them to bed. Re the hair thing, I anticipated this and scraped my hair back and put on a headband!
Re the dummy, I will read up on this, but I think the BW reckons that if you try to do pu/pd whilst still using what she calls 'props' it is harder for it to work. You might be better trying to wean off the dummy first? Not that I know really, cos although I tried, ds wouldn't take a dummy.
Could you try again on a Friday for instance, or a day when you know that your dh is home the next morning. Mine took DS at 7sm so I could have a lie in the next two days. This helped keep me motivated. Also, I'm sure you know this, but everyone kept telling me that it's all about consistency (not preaching, I totally understand where you were at 2am!).
Having said all that, you seemed to have great progress in the evening! If it's any consolation, I've been having a regression with daytime naps today and yesterday pm. Slept for 30mins then pu/pd and crying for an hour. Also wasn't expecting this and it's harder to deal with when you're not expecting it.
Keep trying, you've seen some great progress!

Hi Shoppingbags, thanks, yes the jiggling won't be missed, although I think it's given me great abs (shame they're hidden underneath several inches of mummyflab).

As per my last post, naps gone a bit haywire, but being a BW 'textbook' baby, he's following the predictable path and as it's day five, he's due a relapse!

Oh, I didn't mention HE SLEPT FOR SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS STRAIGHT LAST NIGHT!!!!!!
I managed to sleep a bit better too in between checking he was still alive, thanks to a few glasses of wine! (not that I'm advocating this as a long-term solution). He then had a quick feed and slept until 6.50.

DD2 is 11wks and we did it with her at bedtime. She now knows that she gets 2 attempts to feed. The third time I pick up, and cuddle saying 'its time for sleep, you are tired'. Then next time I just rock the cot if she just whinges and repeat phase 3 if she cries properly. She now goes down reliably at bed time. HTH

Hi Salbow, 7.5 hours wow! You must feel like a new woman! DD ended up in our bed again but I really didn't even try at 1am. I'm just so tired at the moment I haven't got the strength to do it. DH was snoring his head off in bed as usual. At 1 I asked him to bring up a bottle and close the blackout blinds in our room, he did bring up the bottle I fed DD, he went back to sleep, she didn't and ended up in our bed, he left the blinds open and DD then woke at 4.30 to start the day! He is worse than useless when it comes to nights (v.good during the day though) so it has to be me with the sleep training thing is I've never been so tired in my life!

P.S DD is a spirited baby

Hi Twinkleymum, ooh that must have been v annoying! Maybe you should just revert to doing whatever gets you the most sleep for a few nights and then gear yourself up to starting on a particular day. Can you banish the snorer to the spare room for a little while, one less thing to wake you and dd up (worked for me!).
I'm still struggling with daytime naps. Hasn't been napping for more than 40mins. Wakes up screaming from afternoon nap and hard to calm him down at all. However, nights still good. Night before last he slept from 7 until 2.30 until I woke him up convinced I'd just experienced a significant earthquake (could have sworn!) however, nobody but me felt it so unless the epicentre was under my bed, think I must be going mad (or maybe going back through madness on my way to sanity again after having some sleep) .

Stay positive xx

Hi Salbow, hope there were no earthquakes last night! I think you're right I just need to get some sleep in before I do the pupd again. Daytime naps are quite good here now (she says quietly) DD will have 2 one hour naps a day, she used to only do 20mins so that is great now. Ideally she would have 3 naps but the last one is so difficult I've given up, this means she is grumpy between 5 and bedtime, but at least the other two naps are good. I'm so pleased for you that the nights are better, fingers crossed your day naps and my nights improve, hopefully we'll get there eventually.

hello
Very interested in these success stories - my DD (4.5 mths) is a frequent waker too, at night she will only sleep for 3 hours max.

Sorry if I've missed this in the posts (VERY sleepy today so hard to read!) but has anyone who normally breastfeeds to sleep been able to cut down on the night feeding? I'd really like to be able to settle her to sleep without feeding her (and then hopefully she'll stop waking up at all). Would pick up-put down work for this?

Also, sorry if this is a stupid question, but does it just mean pick up when crying, put down as soon as crying stops?

I've searched for the Baby Whisperer website but I can't find it - could somebody post the URL?

Thank you!
(we are going to try pu-pd tonight so hope to report some success too in a few days!)

Hello! I've been lurking on this thread for a little while as I've been thinking about using the PUPD method. I've been very impressed by your progress Salbow! And LOL at the earthquake because that happened to me the other night, after the 'real' earthquake happened, I thought there was another one, an aftershock or something! Which no-one else in the whole world experienced, just me ....

Anyway, my problem with PUPD is that I seem to have had a total intelligence bypass and I still can't really understand it. So this is a total hijack of Salbow's thread but I hope you don't mind if I ask some quick questions!

The main one is, if my DD wakes in the night (which is our main problem) do you know whether I feed first to check not hungry and then do PUPD? She's four months old by the way. Also, sometimes in the evening when I've given PUPD a rather pathetic go I give up after about 20 minutes because I decide that maybe she's just not that tired after all. And then I take her downstairs again and she looks really pleased and slightly amazed, and she watches telly with us until about 9.30 when she'll finally go to bed. Hmmm. Do you think you should stick with a bedtime and just go for it, kind of regardless?

These are such stupid questions but I am feeling VERY stupid at the moment!

Thanks in advance and sorry again to hijack!

Hi Perapera and Scraggydo!

Do it, it's fantastic!
OK, I certainly don't claim to be an expert "whisperer" having only done for 1 wk, but here is what I know!
The BW website is babywhisperer.com. There is load of info in the FAQ of the basics so you don't have to buy the books, but I think they are brill so I recommend them as a starting point then use the website for specific detailed queries.
Basically, you put your baby in the crib saying sleepy time, time to go to sleep now, etc. When they start crying (which they will!) pick them up without fussing or sounding like you feel sorry for them. Talk to them calmly until they stop screaming and put them down immediately. If they start again on the way down, put them right down and pick them up again. Might take 100 goes the first time, but rapidly decreases. The main thing imo and lots of other people's opinion, is consistency. Decide when you're going to start and stick to it.
Scraggydo - think you need to decide on a schedule of windown before bed, bedtime, feedtimes during the night , wake up time etc and try to stick to it rigidly. It's so much easier to stick to when you keep it simple imo.
Perapera, I was feeding my ds every couple of hours in the night, convinced he was hungry, and as soon as I started pu/pd the night wakings and feeds decreased, without me having to "wean" him off them. Also, started feeding him more during day. He is 8 months, so will be different for you.
Again, really recommend books and website for whole EASY routine (eat, activity, sleep, you) which has big impact on nighttime!
Good luck and see other posts for my 1st night experience and tips!

I think it's fantastic too. Salbow, your ds is sleeping better in day as he is more rested. The better they sleep the more they sleep....

It took 3 weeks to crack dd at one point, but it always works.

I think its great. I have recommended this method to so many people. Although quite often people think I am talking rubbish. So its so good to hear success stories.It just takes a bit of time but I believe it is a humane method of trying to help with sleeping difficulties. So many people out there go for the controlled crying method which I think is horrendous for the child.

The Baby whisperer talks with common sense. This method just takes perseverance.

As for the "earthquake", I should have realised it was my imagination. There's been no earth-moving going on in my bedroom for some time

Hello! Thanks Salbow, right, think I'm going to give it a go starting on Monday. I guess you need a relatively free week as I've got a feeling that in the day I could spend an hour picking up and putting down and then having to go out before any sleep has actually been achieved!

Re: my own personal earthquake ... I was alone in the spare room at the time!

I think it depends on your baby. I tried it for ages and, to be honest, I think it was just mithering him into staying awake. He was so over tired and I think all the picking up just upset him more. In the end I tried leaving the room for a few minutes, then putting him down again which worked much better.

My DS1 is 2 now and had the same problems all over again when he could climb out of his cot and move into a bed so it's always a 'work in progress'.

The other thing I would say is that you shouldn't stress yourself about it. It's a cliche but they grow up so quickly and it's not a given that they'll all end up on House of Tiny Tearaways. Looking back, I wish I'd spend less time picking up and bloody putting down and more time letting him have a cuddle and watching him sleep on my lap. Now he's too big for that!

not so easy when you're knackered and have things to do though (just feeling nostalgic!)