Should I be concerned about ADHD?

[Boymummy2015]

Hi
So I have 2 DS (10 & 7) great kids, very very intelligent and academically head & shoulders above their peers. DS 10 Teacher has advised me to send him to Grammar School as he is "too bright for a standard comp" anyway that is all fine and dandy and we are considering this for him.

Homelife is busy we both work full time and the boys have a busy schedule outside of school also with football etc.... they can be real hardwork at home, 10 yo is clearly ushing boundaries and the attitude and eye rolling backchatting etc is strong. I do however think this is pretty normal for his age and know his peers are the same. They are very close in their own way but they do love to p*ss each other off which usually results in them fighting and having things taken off them etc.... one on one they are amazing no issues at all so is this just typical sibling rivalry and fighting for attention?

School life there is never anything major for either of them, usually bits of low level disruption, talking etc but nothing major. 7 yo seems to have settled down a lot since starting year 2 but he is surrounded by alot of children with additional needs and I do think he mimics behaviours at times......

With my elder boy he had a rough time in year 4 he has always had a great student/teacher relationship but it wasn't the case in year 4 and after a meeting with School it became quite clear the teacher had an issue with him, however, he didn't help himself at times but we managed to get things fairly settled by the end of the year. He is now in year 5 and has a new teacher, she's great but takes no messing which I don't mind he had a shakey start to year 5 but I spoke with him and his teacher and within around 3-4 weeks things were back settled and he was great. However, I have this week had a message in his home record booklet to state he has been constantly chatting and would I be available for a chat. The teacher last year tried to say he believed he had ADHD. This isn't something I think either of them have although will agree their are some traits but don't we all? He is very clever and finishes his work a good 30 minutes before the rest of his class and I don't believe he is challenged enough. I want him to be pushed he does he work no problem and to an amazing standard but its once that's done he is bored..... appears to be the same with my younger boy too.

Is this ADHD or are my kids not challenged enough? I don't want to be difficult and I will explore the ADHD if this is what School mention again but at the same time I don't want my kids punished for being intelligent as they are very willing to learn and engage. It's worth mentioning that they both have a large circle of friends whom they have been close to from the very start of school so no friendship/relationship issues etc. I also think it could be from not seeing his friends over xmas, they have only been back a couple of days and this note was in yesterday so I think it's quite harsh to be raising it already..... I spoke with her just before xmas break and there was no issues infact he could do no wrong.

No. You should not be worried. Sounds like normal behaviour after school holidays. You would have seen signs before now.

I would probably talk to the SENCO and take advice from the teacher.

From what you describe your children can possibly be neurotypical but you will never be able to fully describe all your child’s behaviours on mumsnet.
Also you are describing your children from your view and that is one of believing your child does not have ADHD.

Are you sure you’re not getting ASD and ADHD confused?

I think you need to find out why they think it's ADHD rather than just poor behaviour. It sounds more like poor behaviour now he is more comfortable in the class than he was in the first term. If the work is too easy are they giving him extension work or differentiating the work so his is at he right level? From what you've said I wouldn't be jumping to ADHD, but the teachers do see him all day every day - it depends how experienced they are in recognising ND too.

I think school are usually quite spot on with recognising signs, it doesn’t mean they are right but I know quite a few children of friends who have been diagnosed and often the parents didn’t see it before a teacher mentioned it.

This is my thoughts also. It seems everyone has to be labelled with something these days. Whereas I'm saying no my kids are shits at times be firm and set boundaries as I do at home. I spoke with my son and he was told in no uncertain terms he isn't to chat in class.... however, I'm fairly sure chatting is 2 way as well so has the other child/children also had a note home? I wrote back to School and stated I am available anytime to speak to them as they know I am. I can take time out from work to speak when needed but so far no call...... which tells me it is clearly not such an issue. I would have expected they would have called me rather than make a note as well if it was such a big deal to them.

Thanks for your reply. I am 100% certain there are no ASD issues thanks.
The SENDCO I insisted on being involved last year with the meeting, she also taught my son all through year 3 and year 4 for Maths and does so this year so has many dealings with him.... she agreed she didn't believe he has any additional needs but was not pushed nor challenged enough and got bored and restless once he finished his work and had to sit in silence with no further work. She checks his work and then he picks from a box for extension work when with her and she has no issues at all. Hence is this my child being an issue or the school failing.

Thanks Janus.... SENDCO who has taught him for a full year and continues to teach hi for maths I involved last year and she doesn't believe he has any additional needs.

Maybe off topic, but I think the “too bright for a standard comprehensive school” comment is going to raise a few hackles. Large parts of the country don’t have non fee-paying grammar schools and the vast majority can’t afford to go private. So there are very bright children in comps too. Reckon the teacher doesn’t think much of your local comprehensive, possibly with good reason, but it’s not a reason to tar all comps with the same brush.

The behaviour you’ve described sounds pretty normal but remember you’re not seeing how they are at school. And this is only a tiny snapshot you’ve given us so we can’t tell you. You need to go to the meeting and find out what the school’s concerns are. You can then choose whether or not to pursue a diagnosis - if you don’t want to, you won’t have to. Or you could sit and wait a while while you think about it. Waiting list under NHS right to choose is about 6 months once all the completed forms are in but in my experience it can take a while to start the ball rolling.

They was, when he went back in September, him and 3 other children were taken to extension classes once they finished their work this was mainly in maths as this is where he really excels this was great and he loved it. actively engaged and enjoyed doing the extra work. He actually helps other members of his class now too who struggle with their work he helps them to understand it etc. Which he received certificates etc for. This is my point just before xmas he was golden boy now 2 days after returning their putting notes in his home record book...... seems quite hasty to me. In addition the teacher from last year has stuck his 2 pence worth in, he does sports with my son again another area he really excels in and has a large tournament on Monday he is due to be part of but this teacher always finds issue with him just before something like this comes up and then torments him that he wont be a part of it if he doesn't conform. Which I feel is nasty at the very least.

I would take it seriously if the teacher thinks he has ADHD. It is highly treatable and it is a very significant diagnosis. (Not a label as many people dismissively describe it).

Without treatment, it is possible to achieve the same academically as anyone else. I in fact have ADHD, I went to grammar school (where I was top of the class in most subjects) and I have a good degree. My ADHD psychiatrist also has ADHD and managed get through all her medical training and become a consultant before being diagnosed. HOWEVER…… those of us with undiagnosed and untreated ADHD have to work 2,3 or maybe 5 times harder than everyone else to achieve the same. This will not end well because nobody can keep this up with this. I am late 50s and now too unwell to work due to the fact that I have a very disabling illness (ME/CFS). My psychiatrist says that many of her older patients have ME/CFS even though it is not that common and she is sure that the stress of living with untreated ADHD would have been a factor in my developing this serious illness.

So, I always say that getting an ADHD diagnosis and treatment is better for your physical and mental health and actually also financial health. (Most ADHDers are bad at budgeting - i am even though I am highly numerate and love numbers).

My DC2 got diagnosed with dyslexia at 18, after finishing A-Levels, but still managed to get BBB (but was lower than expectations). At. 19 they went to university. The studying went well although they could not take anything in when they went to lectures and then had to go home and watch and repeatedly pause the recording. I also noticed that DC2 could not manage simple life admin like booking or rearranging appointments and remembering to wash clothes before running out. It was then that it dawned that me that they had ADHD and I organized a diagnosis. In primary school and year 7 and 8, DC2 was pretty much like any other good kid - a bit chatty perhaps, but well behaved, polite, intelligent, and motivated. if somebody had told me before the age of about 14, that DC2 had ADHD, I would not have believed them. I might have at 14 because around then is
when the terrible anxiety started.

i attended DC2’s appointments with the ADHD psychiatrist and it wasn’t until then that it dawned on me that I probably had it too. I had read the diagnostic criteria and numerous articles etc but it was only when in one of those appointments that I realized.

OP, if your DCs do have ADHD, either you, their dad or both of you probably have it too. ADHD UK estimates that 2.6 million people in the UK have ADHD, so it is certainly not rare but not that common either, and only 0.27million of them are on ADHD meds. Presumably this means that there are something like 2 million people in the UK with undiagnosed and untreated ADHD.

Sorry for the length of my previous post. It’s a topic I am passionate and knowledgeable about.

i forgot to say one other thing. Slightly off topic but I’m not sure I agree with your DS’ teacher saying that he is too bright to do well in a standard comp. My DC1 is incredibly bright - got 4 Astars at A-Level, also did an EPQ, did paid work on Saturday afternoons, did the DofE gold and silver and had several sporty hobbies. They were at a standard comp. They then went to Imperial College and got a 1st.

However, if you are living somewhere like Bucks - are comps essentially the same as secondary moderns and have no high abitliry children at all? If that is the case, the teacher may be right.

Wherr I live, we have comps but we close to the border of an area with grammar so a number of the bright children go to th grammars in the neighbouring area and so our comps do have super bright kids too but fewer than you would expect.

Nothing stands out as ADHD to me. I have it and so does my daughter and I don’t see any red flags.

The teacher won’t be leaving your son with no work for 30 minutes though. They have to give them an extension task. You’d not get away with letting a kid toss it off for half an hour.

In schools now anyone who has a bit of oomph/nonsense/banter is now becoming an investigation and a case for a diagnosis. Out of 42 new starts this year at my work 31 of them/their parents are claiming ADHD and/or Autism. It sounds like your son is potentially bored therefore acts up at these times, nothing new in that, not groundbreaking and at some point he will mature. We really have to let kids be kids!

My oldest of four is 34 always excelled at maths passing his GCSE in year 8 but couldn’t show working out he just knew the answer, he was a bloody nightmare at aged 15-18 but I supported him , he has worked since he was 13 ,and still works hard and makes a fortune with his pokeman business at weekends. He was diagnosed and said why didn’t you do it earlier? But it didn’t exist then !! And would it of made any difference he owns his own home has three wonderful children and works so hard , he’s hyper but he’s brilliant 🤩 and people don’t need a label and can use it to their own advantage. He gets it from me I’m a nightmare but a nightmare to live with but I’m great at my job

Nothing screams ADHD from your post, but teachers certainly aren't eager to hand the label out, so they must have some justification for suggesting it.
Large numbers of ADHD people are highly intelligent and great at maths. My sister and I, my son (and starting to suspect my 6yr old daughter) all ADHD, all very academic (though had some problems with school life, I got thrown out of class multiple times in year 6 for chatting, despite otherwise being a well behaved child, my son struggles with being still and impulse control) I always completed work quickly and got an A in maths, without any studying beyond doing the set work, my sister and A* and a first class degree Both my kids, doing well at school and great at maths....all that to say. Being highly academic doesn't rule out ADHD.

Ugh. There seems to be quite a lot of ignorance about ADHD here. I am ADHD and was a year ahead throughout school, university and law school. My twins are AuDHD and do really well academically in a large mainstream school. One was persistently rushing to finish first thoughout primary - his brain and his mouth runs at a million miles an hour most of the time. He was also a nightmare to teach - chatting/shouting out in class, interrupting, getting up and moving around in lessons. If he and his brother had not been diagnosed early and appropriate intervention put in place, there is no doubt in my mind that they would not be meeting their potential and we would be failing them. I have friends with children diagnosed very late in the day (Year 9) and they are really struggling. I would not dismiss it out of hand and listen to what school has to say. There is no harm looking further into it even if he does not receive a diagnosis at the end end of the day.

Thank you timerecordingmumny i appreciate your comment & openness i can relate to some of what you have mentioned. I am keeping an eye & will monitor closely over this term.

It’s relatively unusual for ADHD to be suspected in bright kids, because it is so often associated with other learning disabilities. So you should definitely talk to the teacher about what specifically makes her think of ADHD.

For a diagnosis he would normally need to be showing symptoms of ADHD across settings (home, school, outside activities).

My adult daughter has ADHD - diagnosed in her second year at university and after several years of psychiatric follow-up due to depression, anxiety and burnout. She had signs as a young child (very difficult at home, inattentive/ talkative at school) but no one seriously considered ADHD because she was so academically able. But with the benefit of hindsight she definitely ticked all the boxes as a young child.

It’s really difficult isnt it? His Teacher this year doesn’t suspect it not does the SENCO nor did the deputy head. Last years teacher we had a multitude of issues with said teacher tbh. He is the only one who has ever mentioned it. No childminders have nor have any of his football coaches etc. i guess once its mentioned iv been hyper sensitive to it. Im not saying catagoricaly no but i do think we are all abit ND

I think if a teacher tries to say that they believe your child may be neurodivergent that you have a teacher who is trying to help you. My perspective is that I had suspicions that I thought my youngest child might be autistic but every teacher had discounted them. I moved her to a new school and within three weeks her class teacher said she thought it was also probable that she was autistic with a subtle presentation. She has also subsequently received a diagnosis of ADHD as well as autism
My eldest child never stuck out is having any issues but suddenly part way through secondary school was struggling massively. She had never been pushed and is incredibly bright and stopped attending regularly in Y10. We had to move her to a private school because there was no local state school with places available and so we borrowed money and we'll be paying off that debt for many years. Her school.did nothing to help her other than berate us about attendance. It turned out that she also had ADHD and I had never clocked it.
If a teacher raises neurodivergence as a possibility, it is because it sticks out to them as something obvious and they will have had classrooms of 30 children plus for years. It is possible that your eldest child reminds them of another child who has received that diagnosis.
Waiting lists are very long, but some right to choose providers can move fairly quickly. I would go and speak to your GP about this.
I think you've got a teacher going out on a limb here to try and support your child because they think that they could cope with the level of teaching at grammar school.