Struggling with 7 month old despite MBU and support

[FTM202587]

Hi all
I am FTM. Daughter VERY much wanted . 40 , successful job , loving husband and family .

traumatic birth , EBF for 12 weeks but baby always feeding or sleeping. Had poor advice from lactation consultants to keep on going but I think either low supply or undiagnosed small TT. She was gaining weight hence kept on going but she was ALWAYS feeding when awake . ALWAYS. I wasn’t able to go out much because of this and therefore didn’t see other mums to know this wasn’t normal

stopped at 12 weeks and moved into formula but since then everything gotten even worse.

she has 2 hour wake windows but if she isn’t put down to nap then she screams hysterically and will not be consoled at all. The only option I have is to move a formula feed forward as this soothes her . She won’t take a dummy .

She naps in the pram or we have a grizzly battle into her cot for a nap. This means I am totally tied to the local area and home . I am at the stage of not being able to cope any more . Despite having live in grandparents helping and my husband around who has stopped work to help.

other issues -

• she doesn’t recognise me as her mother / show attachment preference to me
• I cannot soothe her when she cries
• no separation anxiety
• will be passed to anyone
• poor eye contact - often stares into the distance and won’t look at me
• smiles but rarely / have to really work for it
• ONLY happy when something is in her mouth - this morning went to supermarket and she wasn’t looking around just chewing on her pram suit
• cries before and after bath time
• cries if doesn’t get her naps
• cannot roll - have been practicing loads
• can sit with it assistance for a few second
• only making occasional sounds
• I don’t know how I will wean her as her formula is the only thing that soothes her

I am really depressed at how bad a job I have done in the first 3 months and what I am now left to deal with .

I have tried everything . I go to local groups once a day if she is awake and happy but logistically everything is a nightmare . From the moment she wakes up I am on a 2 hour countdown to run out the house with the pram or all hell breaks loose that I can’t stop.

I have signed her up to nursery 2 days a week with settling in sessions next week but I am worried I will be called to pick her up due to crying but there’s not much I can do that they can’t!

I have suggested to my husband perhaps it is better she would be adopted as then she could have two loving parents vs one that is constantly stressed and depressed . This is totally out of character but shows how well I am not coping .

I have support for PND and have been in a MBU. I recognise I am depressed but whilst I am her mum and failing like this at it I think I always will be

I am worried about how much longer this will last/ is this likely to be her temperament for her toddler years too? Does anyone have words of wisdom other then ‘this too shall pass’.

thank you 🙏🏻

My husband and both sides parents have advised they wouldn’t allow adoption to be possible , but I would like them to see that it is the only way for her to be truly happy long term. Whilst it would break my heart I would be doing it to be selfless vs selfish

Ok, this is the PND talking. Exactly what support are you receiving? It doesn’t sound like it is enough - can you contact them for a review? You likely need to be on medication, have talking therapy, a social worker (not a bad thing!) as a start.

how old is she now?

On a practical level, my baby is also on 2 hour wake windows right now and, honestly, I think you just need to lean into it. I basically just go for a walk or drive every 2 hours!

So today I met a friend for coffee, baby fell asleep on the way, was asleep for a while once I arrived, then she was awake for 2 hours, then I left when she needed her next nap so she fell asleep on the way home.

to answer your question, “how long will this last?” … her wake windows will obviously get longer and longer and she’ll end up on 1 nap sometime 12-18months.

but the real answer is however long your PND is out-of-control. Reach out to your healthcare professionals. I had bad PND with my 1st and whilst I’m through it now, the bit that makes me saddest is how it ruined his whole first year of life and how I can’t get that back.

You sound like you’re in crisis @FTM202587and I’m sorry that you haven’t had any responses so far.

Is there anyone you can call tonight? If you haven’t been given any numbers to call, you could try PANDAS Foundation

Is your DH able to have her overnight so that you can sleep?

Looks like I cross posted with Existentialcry.

And I agree, it’s very much the PND talking

Thank you- she sleeps through the night and my husband is with me at the moment . On medication plus therapy.

PND aside what are your thoughts on the development / temperament?

Is everyone living in two hour blocks !?

she is 7 months

Some babies are easy, flexible nappers, but many parents live nap-to-nap like this. How she naps may also change as she gets older – we certainly had windows of every nap must be in the buggy or breastfed to sleep, but cot naps began to be possible for us when they were a little bit older. Two hour wake windows are on the shorter side for 7 months, so you may find that soon they stretch out a wee bit, which will give you a little more flexibility.

Some of your concerns are typical baby behaviour, getting upset if she's late for her nap, or wanting something in her mouth to suck and gum. Crying before and after bath again could be normal, not all babies like baths, but check that the room and water are warm enough for her. Many, many babies get upset if they are cold (we had to make the water slightly warmer than the standard recommendation – 37C and they screamed the house down. 39C and they were happy as Larry.).

Attachment, being passed to strangers, etc. – this is one where the range of 'normal' is huge. Mine were fiercely attached to me, and I was always a bit in awe of the babies and toddlers where you could say to another mum at baby group 'oh, could you just watch him for a minute whilst I pop to the loo?' and baby was fine with it. But many of them were! If your baby has grown up with close involvement from you, dad, and two live-in grandparents (which is a good thing!), that would probably encourage her to be more flexible about who's caring for her.

Do her father and grandparents also find her very difficult to soothe, hard to make smile, limited eye contact? With kindness, your PND is going to be affecting how you see those things.

Agree with above - much of what you say isn’t even just normal, it’s be be expected!

Crying when she’s tired: they all do that!

Crying before and after baths: she’s probably
just cold! Part and parcel of being undressed unfortunately. But if it stresses you out, you could just bathe her once a week.

mine cries whenever I dress her! I think she doesn’t like being faffed with and having the top go over her head 🤷🏻‍♀️

she will also happily be held by anyone which is great because as @skkyelark says, I can leave her with someone whilst I go to the loo. I actually asked a complete stranger to hold her in the ladies recently! It doesn’t mean she has no attachment to me.

my son (now 3) never really rolled! I assume he just couldn’t be bothered.

and some of your other observations are just so subjective (having to work for a smile) - that’s the PND talking. It’s more about how you feel about yourself than it is than how she feels about you.

would it be helpful to book a meeting with a health visitor? Just to have some reassurance from someone “proper”. Because I honestly think she’s doing great

And honestly, yes, I think most people are living in 2 hour blocks! Or whatever their wake windows are.

like I take my baby to a playgroup that’s about 1.5 long and people arrive late because their babies were napping, or leave early because their babies need a nap.

whenever I meet friends with babies, after a while they’ll inevitably ask if we can have a walk now because their baby needs a nap.

i actually prefer a baby that can nap in a pram because it gives me more flexibility to go out and do things. I just have a brisk stroll every now and again! But I prefer that to having to go/be home. Although each to their own, of course.

its incredible she’s sleeping through the night too so well done. Sleep is a basic need in the same way that food is, so you’ve done a great job. At 7 months you might find her wake windows can extend to 2.5 hours but they’re all different

It’s the same with everyone re the eye contact and smiling - I am definitely not imagining it ! Great that she can be passed around but would love some preference as her mother :(

I can handle the wake windows but it’s just the meltdowns that occur if we miss them - it’s hysterical uncontrollable crying and the only way to fix it is to move forward a formula feed which definitely isn’t ideal!

thanks for all of your replies :)

Book an appointment with a health visitor and ask them to assess her - I’m sure it’ll be reassuring :)

Might be worth speaking with a sleep consultant about naps? The baby is entirely normal but it may help you to manage her naps (and your feelings around them) if you have a really full understanding of baby sleep.

if feeding her to sleep isn’t working for you, they may also be able to help with putting her down to sleep independently. I did this with my son because I was rocking him to sleep but by around 7 months he was getting far too heavy for me to rock for 10 minutes!

are you feeling any better today?

Your baby sounds very normal and developing as she should, so try not to worry. Easier said than done!
Also, a benefit of baby not having a ‘preference’ towards you is that she may well settle into a nursery type setting quite well.
My first baby was really independent, didn’t care who was taking care of him, had no preference for me at all. He couldn’t have cared less if I was around or not. When he started nursery he just walked in and didn’t care that myself or husband wasn’t there - it’s very nice having easy nursery drop offs and not feeling guilt for leaving him! He obviously does love me very much because he tells me all the time, he’s just very independent. My second baby always wants to be attached to me and it’s exhausting! Just wanted to reassure you that it doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with your baby.
It might be worth contacting your health visitor and getting their reassurance on your baby’s development. They can also check up on you as it does sound like you’re struggling with the PND.

I hope you’ve found some reassurance in this thread. I just wanted to that sone babies are naturally a little more difficult to get a smile out of, the assessments just ask if they do smile. Some will do so readily and wirh others it will take a little more coaxing. I always think of my lovely DH. He doesn’t smile very often but when he does it’s wonderful.

When my DS was around 7 months he rolled once and then looked at me as if to say “well you can tick that off your list now” and didn’t do it again for absolutely ages but he had done it.

Hi- thank you everyone . Yes lots of reassurance. I just feel like I have broken her :(

She does smile during peek a boo or when she sees her dog brother (lots of giggles for him) and when we are at rhyme time singing songs . I just have to work for them !

The first 12 weeks she was honestly always on my boob or sleeping- I’m worried her brain might not have developed as needed during that time and hence possibly behind. Plus we had no structure to the day / sleep associations etc

At 12 weeks it was like starting again on formula but with an older baby .

I’ve tried longer wake windows but she cannot tolerate them.

This morning she was up at 6.45am, bottle, tried some toast and banana , a little play whilst I showered , changed her and now running out the door to make sure we catch her before the 2 hours is up and all hell breaks lose !

I didn’t accept any help to start with so went in blind and didn’t know what I was doing , now paying the price I feel.

She’s not broken - your second paragraph shows just how well she is doing! A happy, loved little baby, doing normal things.

The worry about her brain development sounds like Post Natal Anxiety. Very outing but I also had PNA and was convinced I’d given my baby brain damage.

EVERYONE goes in blind with their first! So don’t beat yourself up about it. No one has a clue what they’re doing, just a small handful of people just get lucky with an “easy” baby. The rest of us just muddle through on bugger all sleep with raging hormones until they’re old enough to go to childcare.

PLEASE speak to your nurse about your worries - particularly if you feel they are escalating again.

but for practical advice:

1. health visitor review for reassurance
2. sleep consultant for help with wake windows and self-settling

Many babies basically just sleep and eat for the first couple of months – they vary quite a bit in when they 'wake up' and can engage a bit more with the world. It will have done her absolutely no harm – eat, sleep, and grow is what she needed then.

That said, yes, a baby who 'wakes up' at 12 weeks can be 'behind' a baby who 'woke up' at 6 weeks (or a crazy baby who did it at 3 days old, looking at you, DD1), but that is just a temporary thing, not any problem with their brain development. To be honest, by 7 months, that effect has probably already faded, and she's just on her own developmental path.

I second the suggestion for a HV review for both of you.

I don’t know if you use social media much, but I would encourage you to limit your use of it / stop following too many parenting influencers. I found with my first baby that it just added so much pressure seeing all these mums online with babies doing everything they ‘should’. Even now, I’m on my second baby and I still find it pressure, even though I know from experience that every baby develops differently. Honestly seeing people put their babies down in a crib for a nap whilst mine will only nap on me makes me feel like I’m doing something wrong, when in reality I know I should enjoy the cuddles. So, just to help your mental health maybe try to limit seeing mumfluencers online and comparing to them, if that’s something you do.

I'm really sorry to hear you are feeling this way. I've definitely had some ups and downs with PND, and some things that have helped me with my 8 month old are:

Try give him a bottle when he is grizzly or smacking his lips, I've found he is actually hungry every 2 hours some days, but others he will go 4 hours between a feed. Babies will turn their head/refuse the bottle if they don't want it, and I'd rather he had 1oz formula and was happy than he was grizzly!

Baby groups - go to them even if baby is asleep, you can park the pram in the corner and just chat to other mums, or sit outside on a park bench and zone out for a bit.

Try get outside every day for a walk, no matter the weather. I go out after the first feed, even if it's just a mile round the houses.

With baths - mine likes it cooler than recommended so more like 34-35° and he likes to be in the bath, not one of those bath seats. Took me ages to figure out he wanted it cooler!

I also feel like I'm on his schedule, but I like to make sure he is fed and changed before we go out. He only sleeps in the pram, car seat or on me. Never in his cot in the day!

Do you know any other mums enough to invite them over for a coffee? It's easier sometimes to socialise at home when you can put the babies on the floor to wriggle and you know you have everything you need to feed/change etc.

The last thing is I heard the phrase 'food is for fun until one' meaning you don't need to worry if baby isn't eating loads yet, but just touching foods, feeling them in their mouth, smelling them, being present at meal times is important and good enough. Milk is still the main source of food for several months yet.