can we talk about rewards charts and naughty spots?

[queenrollo]

my ds is approaching three and is starting to display some defiant behaviour. I'm pretty laid back about most stuff he gets up to, for example getting all the food out of the fridge....i stand with him and we talk about what all the food is and then he helps me put it back.Or if he pulls all my books off the shelf....we look at them all then put them back.
Lately he has been very rough with the dogs, and while they tolerate his behaviour well there are certain things he does that are not acceptable (standing on their feet etc) and last weekend we went on holiday and despite repeatedly asking/telling him not to play with the camping cooker he resolutely ignored me and did it anyway. I told him if he did it again i would throw his bubble gun in the bin......and he just said 'throw it in the bin'....so i did.

I think it's time to think about introducing a reward chart or a naughty step, or both? I want to look into this properly and try and make an informed decision about which method will work best or a combination of both.
I need to think of something that is portable too because a lot of his challenging behaviour occurs while out and about.......

He is a bright, lively and lovely little boy to be around....and i don't want to have to be so hard on him that i dampen his spirit. This weekend we were at a festival and he just would not stay with our group of friends while we were watching bands, he was running off all over the place....to the bar, who gave him a cup of ice and so he kept heading straight back there, and i know it was all very exciting for him. Part of me thinks i should just let him get on with it, and part of me thinks if i ask him to stay with us for a little while then he should?
I think i'm just getting it all off my chest, it was a lovely weekend but at times i just felt so frustrated that i got to spend very little time with my dp or my friends because i spent so much of it just running round after a hyper 2 year old.
I can't decide whether now is the right time to introduce reward charts/naughty spot to control the behaviour i really find troublesome.

for the behaviour thing i would suggest reward chart but also time out or naughty corner as clearly threatening to remove a belonging has no affect on him

as for the festival i think normal behaviour if wanting time with friends then ds should have been left with family and you should have gone with just friends and dp

i woud not expect my ds also 3 to stand around as good as gold i would imagine it would be pretty boring to act like an adult at that age

hypa 2 yr old
perfectly normal behaviour in that type of atmosphere

just pick your fights if its something that can be dangerous that he is doing explain consequences and tell not to do it if does it again a warning then time out

but do what you think its not a bad age to start setting rules as when he goes nursery he will need to abide by them so is best to have some otherwise he wont follow them outside of the home

we're going to a few festivals this year, three on our own(so we will get to spend time with our friends) and two family friendly ones to take ds to. ( i should point out i am seperated from ds dad, i have ds over the weekend due to ex's work committments, he has him mid week)
Our group of 'festival friends' have children too, so there were other children around. I fully expect the other festival we're taking him to will be much the same behaviour and i don't really mind it to be honest, but i know to expect it next time
His dad and i are getting on very well and operating the same discipline in both households, so if we get a reward chart we'll use the same one in both homes.
I've always picked my battles carefully with ds, only over things that are dangerous or follow a point of principle (not touching certain things when we visit others houses for example)....we're pretty laid back with him about most other stuff and have no problems with his behaviour in general, other than the usual toddler behaviour.
He really isn't bothered about losing a possession, but at the moment is obsessed with jelly beans so i'm thinking of buying two empty pots and filling his with jelly beans...and if he is naughty then mummy gets to take one of his jelly beans.
The naughty spot might be a harder battle as he really doesn't like to sit still, so i'm going to get one and see how it goes.
So far ex and i are not keen on sending him to nursery, and are seriously looking into home-schooling.....but either way he does need to learn there are rules and consequences for breaking them.

ds is the same age - I think this is the time where you have to show you mean business. This kind of behaviour can be nipped in the bud without taking their spirit away but with them realising ultimately you are in charge sometimes.
I think if it isn't nipped in the bud at this stage where they are initially testing the boundaries you could be in for a lot worse as he gets older.

I'd look at a combination or positive messages when he is 'good', making a game of things so you can pick your battles, a daily reward chart with stars, and then a 'punishment' of last resort which is kept only for stuff like repeatedly ignoring you, very naughty behaviour.

The punishment could be taking a fave toy away (although sounds like he isn't bothered) time out etc.

Don't feel you have to use a prescriptive method like the naughty step - you know your ds best and what will push his buttons.

For example, my ds hates being shouted at so sometimes I just have to say stop that or I will get shouty.

if i shout at ds.....he shouts back at me, with such a look on his face that it just makes me laugh, therefore rendering it a totally ineffective means of discipline.

We're going through a phase of can't/won't do it at the moment. So if he makes a mess with his toys and i ask him to tidy them up (whatever method, helping mummy...race to see who can do it fastest) he just says 'baby can't' and he reverts to using the term baby about himself whenever this happens.
I am full of praise for him when he does something good, and have generally adopted an approach of ignoring him when he is doing something deliberately designed to gain my attention, and giving him lots of praise when he stops doing and just comes and asks me to do something with him.
I know i have some hard work ahead of me, he inherited my stubborness....

I have to say with toys that's not a battle I fought that much at this stage. I would get ds to do one and then do the rest or sometimes do it all! It doesn't mean it will always be that way - as ds has got older we have got tougher on it. Now he's rising 6 and we threaten the toys with bin bags if he doesn't help - but I think that's a little over the top for a 2 yr old.

i think lowering expectations is always good. And distraction is a huge, huge thing at this age.

With the festival, I think no he isn't capable at this age of staying with you when you'd like a chat with friends; life with a two year old IS chasing after them and not being able to finish a sentence!

I never used formal discipline so don't feel you have to. IMO most things can be dealt with by distraction or checking your expectations are actually realistic in terms of the development of the child. I think if anything is making you feel at the end of your tether and he is just driving you mad/doing something truly naughty or dangerous, then time out in his room would be what I would use.

And positivity as you already practice is of course needed too, always keep telling him how fantastic and gorgeous and clever and good he is - kids are VERY quick to believe what parents tell them about themselves

I have a portable 'naughty spot' which is a circle of IKEA fabric, like a target, that I carry in my bag. I also have a big piece of the same fabric for sitting on when they have their hair brushed called the 'hair mat' so they know to sit on both. I just dread going round to someone's house who has their curtains made out of this as my two would be crawling right up them.

I was never organised enough for a reward chart. Also, I think I did feel deep down that this might put too much pressure on dd who was quite a highly strung child. By the time ds arrived I wouldn't have had time tbh. But that's just us: different things work for different children.

I only used the naughty step if they were really hysterically angry, more as time out than anything else. Though the portable naughty step sounds quite a good idea.

Did not expect my children to stay in one place until much older; if safety depended on it, I used reins with my toddlers. Serious tidying up- as in doing it when I felt they should rather than when they wanted to- also came later with mine.

I have a 2.3 y/o so not quite as old as yours.

HAve found that he responds well to very concrete things. ie "If you do X agian" OR "if you are not doing X by the time i count 3" ,"I shall do Y"(ofetn wash his hands for him or carry him to where ever, sometimes strap him in buggy if out) and after I've carried out the threat to do Y a couple of times he stops doing X when the threat of Y is brought up.
This happens several times aday at teh mo.
HAd to make sure Y is always something I can do instantly tho. No point threatning to go indoors if he won't keep his hat on in middle of outdoor festval.
Our ultimate santction is face the wall and think for a minute. generaly only used for repeted hitting people at teh mo.
reward chart doen;t work for our boy,mhe doesn;t "get it" he has one but he just likes carrying a little paper star around in his pocket and gets very upset if they are put on teh wall.
Sticker for good behaviour is similary un successful he doesn't really care and gets very worked up of teh sticker loses its stick after he has repetedly peeled it off his shirt to look at

well i have a naughty spot, and a reward chart, both of which are still packed away.
Today he helped me decorate two jars, one for him and one for mummy. His jar is full of jelly beans and mine is empty. I explained to him that if he was naughty then mummy would take a jelly bean out of his jar and put it in hers.
I've had to use it twice today. Both times it has worked instantly. He really doesn't want me to have his jelly beans!!!

I've had a few incidents with him today most of which were resolved without having to use the jar. I think i'm getting the balance right.

I agree with the advice to nip this in the bud. I didn't, and DS1 has been a real PITA!

I think the secret has to be following through on threats. That's all you need to do.

I was the worst for inventing way-out/funny/inconvenient threats that I never carried out.
"If you kick me again, I will chop that foot off."
"RIGHT. I'm throwing that telly out of the window."
"Eat it or I won't feed you again til you're 9."

The worst one is, of course, threatening to take him home when you've just arived somewhere you really want to be.

Glad your jar is working!

BTW, I to used to worry abouyt "crushing his spirit" but really, if you're not flogging him with acid and making him sleep in a cell, you're not going to dampen him. All you'll do is guide him towards doing what he's told. It'll be a big help to hikm at nursery/school.

But again, only take this message in the spirit of, "I made a complete mess of this, myself".