Really struggling with DS 22m, feel like am just getting it all wrong.

[bohemianbint]

His behaviour at the moment is driving me up the wall. The whole weekend he has just whinged and whined incessantly. He won't let me and DP speak to each other. He constantly shouts a word over and over again until you acknowledge it and then moves on to another, it's completely relentless.

If you do something nice with him, he's great, until you stop doing it, at which point he throws the biggest tantrum which he can keep going for aaaaaaaaaages because you won't do it again. The other day the police helicopter flew over the house, and when it had gone he had a massive strop because I wouldn't make it come back. It sounds quite funny but it really is doing my nut in, it makes me feel like there's no point doing something he'll enjoy because the aftermath is unbearable.

We took him to my parents for tea last week and despite the fact he was hungry he didn't want to sit in the high chair and screamed stunningly loud, for 45 minutes. We can't ever all go out for a meal because that's what happens, but then I think that really he should be used to sitting and eating around a table and the only way is to persevere. But it's no fun for anyone.

At the moment he's downstairs and I've had to come away, he wants to be picked up, then put down, he screams because he wants his football, and then because you give it to him. I feel frazzled and close to losing my rag and I just don't know how to deal with him when he's like this. My mum reckons if I don't sort it out now my whole life will be ruined, and I'm due to have a baby in August and am frankly now shitting myself that I'll going to be unable to cope with a new baby and DS's behaviour.

DH reckons it's my problem and as we can't change how DS is I need to learn how to shut it out. Which makes me feel like crap really, and at what point can DS start to learn to stop behaving like a massive pain in the arse? I feel like I really can't stand being around him when he's like this and I spend my whole day looking forward to the times when he'll be asleep. Which makes me feel even more guilty.

You poor thing. your not crap, Ds is getting a personal opinion!

Just be firm and constant if it is a "no" moment or a "wait" moment. Ignore what you can, when you can.
And praise and attention when he behaves the way you would like him to.. Ime this seems to have worked.
It is a tough ride tho.. I'm sure your really doing fine. ;)

Thanks Barnical. I am generally quite firm and I try to ignore him if he's just being an arse. But then I start thinking it's my fault for not being stimulating enough/doing the right things with him? Then I start wondering if he's got ADHD or autism because he really is hard work.

This afternoon he screamed for about half an hour, fell asleep for 30 minutes, then woke up and carried on exactly where he left off. My brother thinks it shows determination which could be a really good quality... Fair enough if he applied it to moral crusades or whatever but not to getting a bottle of bubbles out of the cupboard!

It really doesnt help at this stage to be told it is a phase.(But it is!)

He can communicate with you but not well enough,so he gets frustrated.

He is old enough to understand that his behaviour is unacceptable.

You could sort out a "punishment" that you feel happy with such as naughty step etc.It isnt easy to enforce so you have to give it lots of energy as he'll keep getting up.

We are presently doing this with DD2,on the whole she isnt too bad,but she will screamm and pull her sisters hair(great clumps of it!)

In time if you are swift enough,and use the "punishment" promptly,as they wont associate it if you do it some time after the event,it does become a deterrent(sp?)

Always remove him from the situation if you are out and have "time out/Naughty step" away from everyone else.Give it a minute (1 minute for each year)and return.

It is by no means immediate,but you feel more in control,and that you are taking steps to improve his behaviour.Also try praising him,before the behaviour starts ie. You are such a good boy for sitting nicely in your highchair,reward him either with stickers you carry round or a treat.

Dont "sweat the small stuff" ie. ignore behaviour which is unacceptable but not too bad,but always notice good behaviour.

You will definitely see results from lots of positive praise,try to focus on that rather than the Negative stuff. Good Luck.

Thanks Nursejo, really useful advice! I was wondering if he was old enough to "get" a naughty step yet. I'm just a bit unsure about what I can reasonably expect from him. Like, can I expect him to understand when I ask him to be quiet so me and DH can maybe get a sentence out to each other? And like with the eating out situation, should we leave him in the chair and go for a battle of wills, or accept the fact that we just can't eat out with him at the moment?

It doesn't help when I feel like everyone else's kids (that I know) don't seem to behave like this, or have the stamina and lung capacity that DS does...

MY DS1 was really really hard work.. to the point where family have commented on how brave I was to have more dc's.
He is now 13..still very determined, very bright and a pleasure to be around
Sounds like yours might be the same!

Barnical, that's good to hear! He's really smart and can be absolutely brilliant, when he's in a good mood, but when he isn't it's just hell. I found myself thinking things might be better when he's a bit older, but then feel guilty for wishing his life away. Plus am well aware that it probably will not get better with age, just different!

How did you cope with more DCs? If my next one isn't more chilled out I'm totally screwed...

I know it is a cliche but it will get better with age - it is the terrible twos! DS1 was a bit like that at that age and although it is wearing, you have to be consistent and stick to your guns. Don't give in to whinging if you can help it.

It also helped to let my DS1 what was coming up next - tell him the plan and give him lots of warnings so he knows that things are about to stop or change. I think part of the frustration at that age is not being able to do what you want without interuptions. If you give them some warning instead of springing it on them then he might cope with it a bit better. Not always possible I know.

I suspect that it is particularly draining because you are pregnant. It is probably why I remember DS1 behaving like that rather than DS2 who is certainly no angel.

Being able to speak helps so as his language develops his frustration at not getting his point across (to from his view point anyway) will diminish.

If it is any consolation the second one will probably be easier because it will have to be although it does seem, from what I have seen, that if you have a hard one first the second is easier and vice versa.

Good luck!

Cheers Niecie - I think you replied to me a few weeks back when I posted about him saying "GO AWAY" over and over again!

It is good to hear that other people are in the same boat, I only seem to know people who got a nice easy chilled out baby which is a bit depressing...

DH just brought me up a cup of tea and was lovely. We both find it hard but it's easier for him because he's not the person caring for DS day in, day out. He says he'd love to be a SAHD if he could, which makes me think that he either doesn't know quite how hard it is, or that he just thinks I'm a bit crap.

Oh bohemianbint.. they are ALL different bless..you just cope because you and they are there and you just do it!! LOL

DS2 was more chilled out when he was young.. but he's a jumping bean now (9) and dd (4) is a typical girl bossing both boys about and moaning all the time despite all being treated and bought up the same.

It was me who changed.. I just learnt not to get wound up by it!

I would not attempt a naughty step with this boy! I don't like them anyway, but with a boy this determined who can keep going for this long, I think trying to keep him on a step could result in entire weeks being lost in just battling with him

I think it does depend on your view on consequences. I believe that an immediate and related consequence is the way to go (as in 'if you keep banging the toy on the cat I will have to put the toy away') because I think this phase is about TEACHING them rather than punishing them. And teaching them does not IMO have to mean putting a punishment in.

I also think that at least 50% of the battle can be won by lowering your expectations

for instance,I don't think it is reasonable to ask him to be quiet so you can talk; at this stage he is far too impulsive to do that for you so it's just mean to try to impose this as a wished for behaviour when he can't succeed in it. It's a long process but I think if you want him to be quiet and let others talk, it starts here with listening to him carefully and replying (and even sounding interested ) to him when he talks to you. Role modelling and all that.

He does sound a very strong willed boy - I agree, he will do well in life

Is he getting enough sleep? Are his bad days possibly lack of sleep related? Or could you try looking at diet, e-numbers or sugar, that type of thing?

Ignore your unhelpful mother - I know she prob meant well but really !

Your second baby will learn how to self-settle; how to wait; how to be calm etc etc all because your ds will be demanding lots of your time.

It won't do the new baby any harm.

Of course it's easier for your dh - you would be the calmer one if the situation were reversed. It doesn't make you or him a better parent - it's just life.

Your ds's behaviour does sound normal, esp around such a time of uncetainty. There's a new baby coming; you are wondering if you can cope. Your ds will (at some level) know that there is something up and react in the only way he knows how.

Children this age want constant attention and playing with - but actually they don't specifically know what they want. They just want the opposite of what they've got.

Searching for the "on/off" switch or the "solution" wont work because there isn't one. Go with the flow is about the only way to go forward - while setting sensible boundaries.

The thing is sometimes you prob find yourself saying "no" constantly - but perhaps some of those "no" times are just reflex? What does it matter if he jumps on sofas; tips his food about; refuses the high chair? But he needs not to run off; to go to bed; to not hit other children etc etc

He's young yet - needs loads of time and space to run off his energy - think of him like a puppy. Delightful and destructive at the same time!

But he will grow up and you will survive. And he won't ruin your life if you don't crack it at 22 months!

I think I agree with HG - The naughty step isn't always the answer and it was no use with DS2. We spent so long just trying to get him to sit on it for 2 minutes that the original purpose of putting him on it was completely lost. It just became a battle of wills. Sounds like your DS will be the same.

It worked better with DS1 who hated being told off and would do as he was told even though he was whinging and whining all the way. It just made DS2 more belligerent.

They are adorable and exasperating all at once at this age. I think they all go through a difficult stage at some point whether it is at 2 or 3 or even 12. Your time is now, unfortunately, but in a year from now he will probably be a sweetheart whilst other children of the same age will only just have started to drive their mother's mad!

I bet your DH doesn't think you are crap at all - he wouldn't have brought you a cup of tea and been kind if he thought you were over reacting! He may well like to have a go at dealing the problem but he is still fairly fresh - he doesn't spend enough time with DS to get wound up. My DH was the same but you could see his patience start to go if he had a week off work! I bet after a week at home your DH would be as fed up as you!

You are pregnant too, don't forget that

When I was pg with dd2, there were days with dd1 when I used to collapse on the sofa and think to myself "How THE HELL am I going to manage with a newborn as well as (hard work st the time) dd1?"

Dp would remind me that then I would no longer be pg... and he was right, tbh, I did feel better and more energetic once dd2 was born, and better able to cope with dd1

dd2 is now 22m, so I have an idea of what you're going through

You've all been really lovely which has cheered me up a bit, thanks! Also, DS has just thrown up so am wondering if he's just been feeling a bit off, might explain some of his narky behaviour?

Poor little chap - hope he is OK.

THanks niecie. He seems better this morning, still a bit off his food though.

I've been ahving a scan through "the Good Behaviour Book" in search of inspiration and had a good chat with a couple of friends this morning, so am feeling slightly better today! Thanks for the support, this stage is really tough, isn't it. Doesn't help that I'm scared to death about how he's going to take to #2, and worried that #2 might be as high maintenance as he was!

it's hard, isn't it? DS is 20 mo and DC2 due Dec - I'm hoping his behaviour will have improved by then! I don;t think it's helped by me being rattier than usual plus stress of thinking about moving etc.

DS also teething again I think - lots of drooling and chewing fingers. Plus waking up at the crack of dawn (4:30 this morning)

no advice, I'm just trying to get through it!

I found that Toddler Taming was a very helpful book. It got me through a few patches where I was tearing my hair out with ds. Dd is 14months and far mor willful, so will be re-reading it again soon

If it is any consolation, dd was an extremely high maintenance baby and toddler, but her little brother turned out to be very easy-going - or if he wasn't, at least I never had time to notice.

he sounds like a bundle of impulses with no where to go and no control yet. i didn;'t really like ds1 when he was like this, then i read some child development stuff and realised its just a bloody phase (sigh).

i honestly don't think from my experience its worth fighting most of the battles at this stage. i only enforced safety and major social points with ds1 who went through this for about 2 months. life was not huge fun and we truncated a lot of stuff/activity. i would give my answer/make my point clearly once and leave him to figure it out after that. ignoring is the ONLY thing that truly worked with him. you need a zillion pairs of earplugs dotted around your house/person. pop them in to muffle the endlessness of it all and get on with life around him - if this works for you you may even find a quiet boy starting to join in with you.

once he started to understand that other things/people around existed independetly of him he calmed right down and showed startling leaps and interest in how the world runs around him. and i whacked him into 3 days a morning pre-school at just just over 2.5 years, where he can see other children behave, and learn more about how things work...

Cheers everyone. He's been much more fun to be around today, I feel a bit guilty because his extreme pain in the arse-ness probably was due to him being sick last night. It does help to get a glimpse into how they think, and I'll check out that toddler taming book too, thanks for the tip!

I was really stressing myself out thinking that he might have autism or something, but I think on the whole it's that he's very active and physical and doesn't tolerate being bored very well.

If autism is about not being able to put yourself in somebody's shoes, having no tact, continually repeating actions and words and losing it over tiny little things (gross over generalisation I know) then I think it is fair to say that most toddlers at one time or another could safely be labelled as autistic.

He is young and active and typical of his age - rational is just not in their repertoire.

Glad you have had a better day today.

I've just had a baby and already have a 2.5yr old daughter so can relate to alot of what you're saying so I shall attempt to be a voice from the other side...I was really nervous about what it would be like to have a toddler and newborn but it honestly isn't as hard as I thought. I was way less patient when I was pregnant and it all seemed scary and exhausting but now that I've had my second, seven weeks down the line, everything has pretty much fallen into place, she accepts her sister and I'm finding ways to amuse her while looking after a newborn.
Sounds like your DS had something hanging on him but that kind of behaviour is definitely normal although he's probably picking up on your worry and negativity. Try (god I know it's hard) to lighten up a bit and it'll rub off. Laugh when you feel like crying and he'll probably join in. When you do tell him off, make sure your voice changes dramatically from your playing/nice mummy voice...get very serious- that usually works on my DD. Try to make games of the things he annoys you doing- we had lots of hassle trying to get her up the stairs (cue throwing herself on floor etc) so now I do 'ready, steady, go!' and race her up on all fours...works a treat and is faster than all that pissing around/reasoning with her.

The old cliche 'get them to help' also works brilliantly...give him a box and regularly fill it with baby things that he can help you with, nappies, wipes etc. Tell him he's in charge of the box and ask him to help you fetch things. Don't make a big deal if he gets muddled, brings the wrong thing. I have another box with everything I need so her box is surplus, just helps her feel needed and a part of things. Show him how to touch, lean over baby without hurting it and praise the bejeesus out of him. You're the best brother in the world! etc etc

Niecie, I call it the sociopathic stage in my head!