bargaining is bad, isn't it? why, though?

[choosyfloosy]

i think I do a lot of bargaining with ds (he's 4) - 'brush your teeth and then we'll play snakes and ladders' sort of stuff, can't think of any more examples at 1am (damn, what happened to the evening?) I seem to remember this is bad, though. What's wrong with it, and how else do you get a 4-year-old to do anything except eat ice cream, watch Rugrats and (bizarrely) clean the windows?

Not sure, but will watch the thread with interest. I remember when ds was a baby, inwardly shaking my head at a mum who bargained every single little thing, and thinking that my children would do as they were told, because I'd told them. I a nice way, of course, but firmly.
4 years later on, it doesn't seem to work quite that way . .

I don't see that saying 'brush your teeth and then we'll play snakes and ladders' is a bad way to go about things.

Life is about give and take, and you're teaching him that if he does a little of what you want him to do, he will get positive results ie: playing snakes and ladders.

A bit of bargaining here and there is a great way to get things done without an argument or clash of wills.

It's the next step on from the distraction that you need to do with toddlers really, isn't it?

Studies have shown that when you offer your child something they want in order for them to do a task that they don't want to do (eg eat your peas and you can have some icecream), it increases the value of the reward (the icecream) and decreases the value of the task (the peas). In effect, you're making it more difficult for the next time you want your child to eat peas.

One alternative method I've heard of is giving your child options that lead to the desired behaviour, while giving them a feeling of choice. So, if you're going to go outside and your child is resisting, tell him that you're going outside, but ask him if he wants to wear the blue coat or the green coat.

I should disclaim that the first piece of information came out of a developmental psychology lecture and the second came from Oprah. I'm not trying to increase or decrease the value of either, but I'm doing a lot of essay writing at the moment, so feel I should reference properly

Hope that helps a bit.

I would guess that it's something to do with the fact that if you do this for everything, you have nowhere to go when they refuse, ignore or simply don't do.

I try the approach;
a)ask Ds to do thing.
b)he does it. Reward later with explanation of ' that's for being a good boy earlier'.
c)he doesn't do it. No reward.
The only way is up. IYSWIM.

I think bargaining is fine as long as it's just one of the ways of getting the little terrors darlings to do stuff.

You've also the got "do your teeth now!" approach, the "aren't you a clever boy for doing your teeth so well" and the "if you go and put your pyjamas on and do your teeth all on your own I'll give you 20p"

It's like everything else in childrearing: fine in moderation. Reminding them of something fun that will happen later is perfectly harmless; it's when they expect a monetary reward for basic everyday tasks. Or worse, when they don't believe you can make them do anything without cash down. But most sensible parents are able to recognise the difference and stop in time.

What happens though, when you say ' If you brush your teeth, we'll play snakes and ladders' and you can't(for whatever reason)deliver? I've done that which is why I don't do it now. I've promised a reward prior to their doing something and been unable to physically deliver the promise. They feel let down and less willing to trust the next ' bargaining' from you.

Bargaining always works for me, but I always bargain in the negative. I never offer treats, only reprisals

For instance, yesterday my three old refused to eat his tuna fish sandwich/raw carrot for lunch. He wanted chocolate buttons, you see.

I told him that if he didn't eat his lunch, we would not go to the bakery in the afternoon, he would not be offered anything else for the rest of the day ... and oh! I would put his chocolate buttons in the bin.

It works like a charm, every time!

Ohhh! I could join you in that one Desi!

It works, my friend!

That said, I'm not so mean as to extend it to things I know he doesn't like. I just happen to know that he loves tuna fish, and he was just being a three year old PITA!

it is not called bargaining or bribing...

it is called 'giving them an incentive'.!

I find I do better work if I have an incentive, so why not children. Mine is often a simple coffee in peace, so it does not have to be a huge incentive.

in fact, the best ones I find are the promise of me not shouting......they do things a lot quicker then...

LOL! Yes, I do often use these ones too Desi and Phycho. I just don't offer them things first...If you do x you'll then get y...No, No, No!

Food for thought, thank you all.

Trying to remember what worked for me when I was a kid.

I think, since I was the youngest of 3, that my mum had simply given up expecting any of us to do anything.

I wonder, though, how the pasta jar/set number of pennies fits in with this? (I mean any of those schemes where the child starts the week with 20 pieces of pasta and loses one for every infringement, regaining for good behaviour). Must read more about it before trying to introduce it in a halfassed way like i do most parenting things.