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Behaviour/development

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ADD and ADHD

21 replies

Jillxx · 17/03/2001 23:08

I think my daughter who is nearly 6 could be suffering from ADD or ADHD. She has frequent unexplainable mood swings, very emotional, bad concentration span, needs telling not to do things over and over then goes and does it again, very angry.
Do any of you have a child or children who have been diagnosed with ADHD or ADD? My daughter is seeing a paediatrician in April. Any tips as I am at the end of my tether and my feetache from walking on egg shells.

OP posts:
Rhiannon · 20/03/2001 09:08

Does she behave like it at school or with her grandparents etc. Or does she save it for you?
Will she behave if she knows she will get a treat for being good?

Have you noticed any change in her behaviour after eating or drinking anything in particular? I have recently noticed my 6 year old goes crazy after eating those little penny sweets you put in a bag.

Does she sleep? I know that not sleeping is one of the symptoms of ADHD but don't know much else so don't want to pass on wrong info.

Robinw · 20/03/2001 21:50

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Mel · 30/03/2001 21:06

Hi Jillxx I just got through writing you a big missive and my computer crashed!!!! So, in a very succinct way, I'll try again. My 8 year old son was diagnosed with ADHD about 2 years ago. We'd known for a long time that something was not right. He's very bright and articulate (too much so for his own good sometimes!), but was beginning to display increasingly aggressive behaviour towards me and being verbally aggressive. Not swearing - (His worst word at the time was bloody!). We were referred by our very helpful GP to a child psychiatrist and it has helped reams!!! I have also read alot of books - some so patronising that I threw them out, but others very good I can recommend ADHD by Dr. Christopher Green and Kit Chee. Also one by a guy called Kewley. The advice given was very good - explained ADHD so well and helped us understand that he wasn't just being a little bugger deliberately, there was agood reason for it.

Stop walking on eggshells, tempting as this is, and take control of the situation. Set up ruotines that don't deviate for difficult times of the day - getting ready for school- mealtimes - end of the day - going shopping. Tell her what the new routine is going to be - if she does say, 3 things without having to be nagged, then she gets a reward (SMALL - extra TV time for example). They could be : getting dressed, making her bed and going downstairs for breakfast for example. If she doesn't do it then she could lose 5 mins of TV time. Check to praise - "Oh good - you've got your socks on!" is 100 times more productive than "Hurry up - is that all you've done?!" Say what you mean and mean what you say. No idle threats - if you say it, you have to do it, even if you open your mouth and say it without thinking and then it makes your life hell for an hour ( been there, done that one!!). Try time out for behaviour you want to stop - hitting, being rude, shouting at you. You ask her to stop whatever it is - if she ignores you, don't repeat the request ( but make sure she has made eye contact with you and heard your request), count slowly to 3 and if she doesn't comply, then she has to sit in time out (the step in our house - you can't throw it!) for 1 minute for every year of her age - 6 in her case. The time out doesn't start until she is sitting quietly. I have had to physically hold my son on the step until he stops yelling and kicking! If she gets off, put her back on. If she doesn't do what you origanlly asked when she's done time out, then she has to do it again. The idea is that you make life SOOOO boring for those few minutes, that she will decide it's easier to do as she is asked rather than go through the hassle of time out. You will have to explain it to her beforeyou start using it though.

not sleeping isn't a good indicator of a child with ADHD - my son sleeps like the dead! Also, diet won't necessarily help. If she is noticably hyper after eating/drinking some things ( Sunny Delight in my son's case) then cut them out of her diet, but be very wary of books that tell you that ADHD can be controlled by diet because it simply isn't true. Grow a very thick skin - ignore all those looks and tuts that you get when you're out and believe in yourself and your ability to love her and do your best for her. Try not to get angry at her - it is SOOOO hard i know and I do blow my stack, but she can't help her behaviour anymore than you can not close your eyes when you sneeze! Read the books, see the paediatrician and go for it!

Meggie · 20/05/2001 19:52

Hi Jillxx. I was very interested to read your message as I came on-line tonight to fine some information about ADHD.. I too think that my daughter - almost 5 - may suffer form this. Can I ask you how you came to be referred to a paediatrician? I am frightened to put the wheels in motion because it seems to make the problem more real; this is silly, I know! I was called into school last week to be told that my daughter is being increasingly disruptive, flippant and cheeky with the staff. She is all these things, and more, at home but inbetween times can be charming, funny, articulate and mature. I am sorry to spill this out, when you are seeking help yourself, but I wondered if we were travelling down the same road!

Hazzy · 20/05/2001 21:34

Hello Meggie (and Mel),

I can sympathise with your current unease - our 5yo son had constant 'trouble' at school until we took him out to be educated at home (which we were inclined to do anyway) - and have had no 'problems' since. In my eyes, he was behaving like a normal child, but his behaviour was clearly 'inappropriate' for the school. As a result, we looked into the whole area of child psychiatry and ADD/ADHD - and, I'm afraid to say, came to the conclusion that ADHD is a fraudulent diagnosis.

There's not space here to go through all the claims and counterclaims about childhood psychiatric problems and drug treatments, but you could do a lot worse than visit the site of an American psychiatric MD who has questioned the whole practice of drugging 'problem' children - www.breggin.com

Here are two important parts of the testimony he gave to a US House of Representatives Committee (reproduced without permission):

"It is important for the Education Committee to understand that the ADD/ADHD diagnosis was developed specifically for the purpose of justifying the use of drugs to subdue the behaviors of children in the classroom. The content of the diagnosis in the 1994 Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders of the American Psychiatric Association shows that it is specifically aimed at suppressing unwanted behaviors in the classroom. The diagnosis is divided into three types: hyperactivity, impulsivity, and inattention. Under hyperactivity, the first two (and most powerful) criteria are "often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat" and "often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected." Clearly, these two "symptoms" are nothing more nor less than the behaviors most likely to cause disruptions in a large, structured classroom. Under impulsivity, the first criteria is "often blurts out answers before questions have been completed" and under inattention, the first criteria is "often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities." Once again, the diagnosis itself, formulated over several decades, leaves no question concerning its purpose: to redefine disruptive classroom behavior into a disease. The ultimate aim is to justify the use of medication to suppress or control the behaviors. Advocates of ADHD and stimulant drugs have claimed that ADHD is associated with changes in the brain. In fact, both the NIH Consensus Development Conference (1998) and the American Academy of Pediatrics (2000) report on ADHD have confirmed that there is no known biological basis for ADHD. Any brain abnormalities in these children are almost certainly caused by prior exposure to psychiatric medication."

"Children become diagnosed with ADHD when they are in conflict with the expectations or demands of parents and/or teachers. The ADHD diagnosis is simply a list of the behaviors that most commonly cause conflict or disturbance in classrooms, especially those that require a high degree of conformity. By diagnosing the child with ADHD, blame for the conflict is placed on the child. Instead of examining the context of the child's life - why the child is restless or disobedient in the classroom or home - the problem is attributed to the child's faulty brain. Both the classroom and the family are exempt from criticism or from the need to improve, and instead the child is made the source of the problem. The medicating of the child then becomes a coercive response to conflict in which the weakest member of the conflict, the child, is drugged into a more compliant or submissive state. The production of drug-induced obsessive-compulsive disorder in the child especially fits the needs for compliance in regard to otherwise boring or distressing schoolwork."

I almost cheered when I read that, having spent a year resisting the attempts of our son's school to refer him to all manner of 'professionals'.

Please do visit his site - and perhaps check out www.geocities.com/HotSprings/8568/ where other sceptical voices can be heard. It's just my opinion, but I think it's vital that we all do our homework on such diagnoses (and the internet is a very good resource) and ask hard questions of all the 'professionals' who are offering help. You might find, like we did, that it's not the child who is the 'problem', but a schooling system that fails to cope with bright, funny, active, temperamental, permanently curious children.

I hope that helps and I wish all the best to you and your family.

Mel · 24/05/2001 17:17

Hello Hazzy, when we were referred, we had a very detailed investigation into how our family functions on a day to day level, the relationships within it and this was done over a long period of time. There was never any mention of medication, in fact, I know from other parents, that medication is only considered after at least 6 months of using behavioural techniques, the way you approach situations etc. This was certainly the case with us. They helped enormously to deal with his behaviour - different ways round situations. It helped, especially when it can take an hour just to get out of the house! We had already made the decision before the 6 months was up that we would under no circumstances accept medication. In the end, we were put on a trial programme, multi-sensory , that has improved his listening skills and his self image and his anger. The impulsiveness is ever present as is the inability to remember more than 2 instructions on the trot.
Medication is a really imotive issue and is all too often seen by the media and parents as a miracle - it isn't. But having taught children with ADHD ( yes, I do accept that there is such a thing), I have seen that medication helps some children enormously. I agree with yoiu that we do have our society, and education system set up all wrong - but there are ADHD kids out there, who are giving their parents hell, and those parents usually needlessly blame themselves.

Satty · 30/06/2001 09:57

Hello, this is my first time with mumsnet I have been reading your messages and some of them really do sound like my 4 and half year old son with ADHA. What I’m interesting in find out is, that does anyone find that if your child eats the wrong food e.g cakes chocolate crisp sweets etc.
Does he or she tend to play up for weeks till the sugar is out of their system? I have that problem and that what triggers the bad behavior.
Satty

Copper · 02/07/2001 14:42

Jillxx, Satty

I don't have personal experience of this, but it sounds difficult for everyone. Weeks to get sugar out of a system seems quite a long time, Satty. What happened in April at your appointment, Jillxx?

Are there any websites that help? Are you trying to control it by diet alone? There is another thread somewhere in mumsnet about additives in food that might help.

Satty · 04/07/2001 11:50

Jill

I try to avoid everything with sugar, chocolate and also fizzy drinks, some days he will play up for no reason he will cry and cry until he’s tired. I’m coming to the point where I just can’t cope any more!!!!
His class teacher had to call the cline and inform them about his behavior, they have been to see him in the school, I’m hoping to get a feed back with 2 to 3 weeks time. I do try to avoid all the E numbers from his diet

Jillxx · 11/07/2001 17:14

Thanks for the messages, to be honest I had forgotten about posting the message on here and found it just by luck. SORRY! My daughter had her appointment at the paediatricians in April, she has been put onto Methylphenidate tablets ( a very low dose of Ritalin). Since then her behaviour has improved as has her school work. Having said that recently her behaviour has started to go downhill abit. She has now been on a Hyperactivity Food Elimination Diet for a month, which I feel hasn't helped at all, if anything upset her more so. Today we got a date for an EEG to be done, next Thursday (19th), will post update then! Thanks for all the comments - interesting reading!

OP posts:
Satty · 12/07/2001 09:47

I went to my son's parents evening last night and soon as I
entered his class I was asked to see the head teacher after the talk. When I
went to see the head teacher she told me that he is beyond their control
and gave me a list of thing he's been doing (really horrible things like
hitting his teacher's and he also bit some very hard)they are now looking into getting outside help. The school is now looking into suspending him from school.

Things are just getting worse for me and I'm unable to control him... I'm breaking down.

Carriel · 12/07/2001 15:21

Poor you Satty - I'm afraid I have no experience in this area at all, but can only suggest contacting the following agencies ( if you haven't already done so!): ADD Information Services ( ADDIS), PO Box 340, Edgware, Middlesex, HA8 9HL or ADD-ADHD Family Support Group 1a, High St, Dilton Marsh, Westbury, Wilts, BA13 4DL. It's also worth giving parentline plus a call their helpline is 0808 800
2222, website www.parentlineplus.org.uk, they should at least be able to offer support and may know where else you can go for help and advice. Good luck, I'm sure it will get better.

Carriel · 12/07/2001 17:03

Poor you Satty - I'm afraid I have no experience in this area at all, but can only suggest contacting the following agencies ( if you haven't already done so!): ADD Information Services ( ADDIS), PO Box 340, Edgware, Middlesex, HA8 9HL or ADD-ADHD Family Support Group 1a, High St, Dilton Marsh, Westbury, Wilts, BA13 4DL. It's also worth giving parentline plus a call their helpline is 0808 800
2222, website www.parentlineplus.org.uk, they should at least be able to offer support and may know where else you can go for help and advice. Good luck, I'm sure it will get better.

Janp · 12/07/2001 19:56

Hi Sattie, I wonder if it would help to talk to other parents with experience of ADHD? Talking to people who really understand what you're going through may provide useful info and some much-needed support. There's a fantastic group called Contact-a-Family, which puts families in contact with others who've struggled with similiar conditions. Their webpage on ADHD is full of info and contacts - see www.cafamily.org.uk/Direct/a81.html
Why not also give Young Minds a ring (Helpline 0800 0182138)? They can provide expert advice over the phone and point you in the direction of further support. Very good, very pragmatic and very parent friendly organisation.
Hope this helps.
Jan Parker (mumsnet parenting advisor)

Mel · 20/07/2001 19:37

Satty, I,ve just checked the boards for the first time in ages and read your first message. I'm so sorry to hear that your son is having trouble at school. Did you find out how long this has been going on? Does he have an Individual Education Programme on the grounds of his behaviour(EBD)? If his behaviour is so awful, does he have a Behaviour Diary where all the incidents, and what was done to cope with them (as well as what led up to them), are recorded? Has the school contacted you before, if not, why not? They have a duty to inform you of this sort of behaviour, enlist your help and have a proper programme of support, called a Pastoral Support Programme, for your son. They cannot seek outside help without your permission.
How is he at home? Was this all a total shock to you? Do you want their help, or do you feel that they aren't being particularly supportive? There is an organisation called ACE (they have a website, can't remeber the address, but put 'exclusion from school' into a search engine and it should come up), who are really good. They have a free helpline,as well as free info packs about exclusion from school.
Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Copper · 21/07/2001 09:28

Satty
have you looked at the thread Parenting - Bedtime Problems with a 6 and 4 year old? Jillxx looks as though she's a few steps on from you with this problem.

Tiff · 24/07/2001 20:27

to all those with an adhd child, don't give up. my son is now 8 and it has taken us the last 5 years to finally get a diagnosis of adhd, asperger syndrome and dsypraxia, this was after we went private. what helped was the excellent book by christopher green and kit chee and the support of others. i ended up on anti-depressants because i couldn't cope but i knew i needed help. don't be afraid or ashamed to ask for it.
we have been prescribed ritalin for him and life is much calmer. we also found out that artificial colours, flavourings and preservatives are a big no-no. the thing to watch out for though is medicines, toothpaste etc which are mostly coloured. we had a lot of help from the dietician when it came to diet and were given some helpful literature.
i found it helpful to keep a behaviour diary alongside a food diary and we have looked in to the Feingold diet.
feel free to look at my suggestion for aspergers also.

Mel · 12/09/2001 18:39

Satty - how are you getting on? Any news?

Satty · 20/09/2001 13:44

Hi, I’m not do too bad, Amrik seem to be doing well at school, I have manage to change my working hours to 8-3pm, so that I can pick him up from school, which he really likes, that way I can really control his diet. He even wants to read his storybooks with me, and that is a big change in him. On the 29 we will be meeting with the new teacher, the head and others. i must be doing something right. Hope he stays that way...

Robinw · 11/10/2001 18:31

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Kip · 06/11/2001 13:08

Just been reading through the last few months of messages and am able to sympathise with what several of you have been/ are going through.
Since his first term at playgroup I have dreaded picking my son, now 6, up for fear of the likely bad report. We tried incredibly strict diets (feingold) for several months and I still avoid all artificial additives, we kept behaviour diaries, these helped give us insite into him to a certain extent, but there was no let up! He could be diagnosed as ADHD or as having Aspergers Syndrome but my GP decided to try hoemeopathy before referring him down the dreaded labeling line. At that stage, this time last year, I was willing/ desperate to try anything, so he was referred to a registered hoemeopath.
All I can say is it really is worth trying, our son is now able to control his anger as most other children do, in his own words he once told me that now he is able to 'battle the badness' inside himself by ignoring or walking away from what he feels is wrong or rude of someone, instead of hitting or kicking them.
He is the most caring, thoughtful and loving little boy you could meet. I could cry when I think back to a time when he caused so much disruption to the family that I even thought about giving him up for the sake of the other children. Hoemeopathy has changed our lives.
I do hope you have found some help for your chidren, if you are still struggling contact a registered hoemeopath.

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