What is the milestone about pointing at things for toddler?

[BlueberryPancake]

I have a very lively and gorgeous DS who is 1 year old, and is not pointing at things. He is very determined and will do everything to 'get to' what he wants, he was crawling at 6 months old and today tried to get out of the bath by himself (!!!), but he doesn't point. I remember reading something about it here, that it is supposed to be an important developmental stage, but I can't remember why and at what age. Anybody knows?

That's fine Manny - I get that completely. Can you confirm what Starlight said about the other questions though?

dd2 (17 mo) has only just started pointing in the last 4 weeks (I see the thread has moved on so I don't know how helpful I'm being)

Twinklemegan - it's been ages since I've come accross any of your posts. I hope you're well

Q11) some ASD kids will give eye contact for several seconds or more, others will refuse eye contact at all

Q18) this tests a child's joint attention, which is about sharing

Q20) this is also testing a child's ability to share/socialise

Q22) 2/3rds of ASD kids have associated learning difficulties so may have poor comprehension for their age

It is not really a case of 'pass' of 'fail' for the above questions, it is the combination of answers for the whole test that determines how at risk a child is for an ASD. HTH.

Hi Margo! It's only moved on because I'm being belligerent about this one

There are 24 questions, 22 if you disregard questions 1 and 2. This means that there are over 4 million different combinations of 'yes's and 'no's that could be produced by the test.

The key thing to a test such as the CHAT test is that only a relatively small number of combinations will ever exceed a (given) threshold where the risk of an ASD is indicated.

Twinkle if you follow the link from First signs you get the yes/no pass/fail for each question. I think you've misread my post. Of course children are meant to engage in pretend play.

I don't really agree that there's an overlap between autism and intelligence. The CHAT test isn't really designed to pick up quirky kids, it's designed to pick up children who don't share attention and have problems with imitation (a key indicator of autism). \

The CHAT test (done properly) is a good screening tool. The links from First Signs explain it clearly (direct from the researchers). You can print out the test plus scoring sheet.

It's not a simple count as some questions are weighted more heavily than others.

It's definitely a case (as I suspected) of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. I'm all for making information more widely available, but I do wonder if it is wise in this instance.

Here scroll down to the MCHAT and follow the instructions. The MCHAT is a simple screening tool and can be easily used by parents or administered by HVs. It's not really dangerous - its useful providing you have the correct scoring key.

The Social Emotional Growth chart on that same link is worth doing as well if you want to work out which areas need support (rather than worry about a diagnosis).

A little knowledge is a very powerful thing. Much better than sticking one's head in the sand and hoping for the best.

Twinkle, if you do the original test as shown on the NAS website it's more straightforward because a yes is a pass for each question. If you google CHAT test and click on the NAS link it takes you straight there. Just scroll down.

SM, don't wait if you're worried. There may be no problem but if there is then the quicker you're in the system the better. How is your DS with food? Does he like mud/sand/water and messy play? If you ask him where his shoes are, does he understand? If you asked where Daddy was, would he turn to his Daddy?

I think it's important to note that things like pointing, waving and copying absolutely come naturally to the vast majority of NT kids. Most children regardless of how many classes they've been taken to or how much input a parent has given will just spontaniously start pointing at everyday things such as buses and (especially) dogs.
It starts around 9/10mths but more usually around 12/13mths. Most NT children will be pointing both as shared interest and to communicate wants by the time they are 18mths. Lack of pointing just suggests that there may be a problem, not that there definitely is.

Also wanted to say that I totally disagree with the idea that mild autism is really just high intelligence but then I also disagree with the whole 'we're all on the spectrum' idea too.

ha ha- me too. I want to scream when I hear that. Oh we all sniff bottoms do we? (The people edging out of ds1's way today when he had to wait 5 minutes for something didn't look like they bought into the whole 'we're all on the spectrum' malarkey )

Ah ha. I wasn't being deliberately dense I assure you. As I wasn't looking at the same M-CHAT link at the time, I applied Starlight's numbering to that duff test on the quiz site. My mistake - sorry.

Of course that now makes perfect sense and I take back some of my stronger comments.

But clearly there are other sites out there featuring the CHAT or M-CHAT test without having the necessary data to accompany it. That is what is dangerous IMO.

BlueberryPancake, hope your original question has been answered!

Yep Blueberry- 12 months far too early (my 2 NT son's didn't start pointing properly until 15 and 16 months - and ds3 not until we'd removed cows milk from his diet!).

does that make sense. DS2 and Ds3 being NT- ds3 pointing at 16 months after we removed cows milk.

DS1 started pointing after age 2 but generally in the wrong direction. He does point now (aged 9) but prefers to point with my hand if he wants to be accurate!

It is not the test which is duff, it is the output it gives which is incorrect (the 'all positive scores' bit) - misleading I agree but again, most parents would only seek out and complete such a test if they had concerns about their child in the first place.

SM, I would definitely push for a referral for your ds. I hope you get some answers soon, good luck,

SM, I asked about food and messy play because it can suggest sensory issues. Dislike of wet food or rough food or non-yellow food!

I would def. see your HV or GP. I am not in any way suggesting that your DS has anything wrong at all. It's just that you're clearly worried and you have noticed things which could be of concern.

Think about other things too. Did he enjoy being under a baby gym? When did he start reaching out for toys? How is he with loud noises? Have as many details as possible to hand to help build a picture in order to get a referral if that is what is needed.

In all of this, don't forget to still enjoy your son.

sm i would take your ds they will probably just monitor him until he is 2 or bit older as these things can indicate autism but in children this young can also be normal behaviour

my ds who is 3 has just been diagnosed with high functioning autism and he would point hold eye contact loving has speech delay so i took him at 2 due to no speech aprt from mum dad and few other but only about 10 words

he was monitored until 3 incase developmental delays and then we was given diagnosis based on the outcome of being monitored for all that time

the earlier you raise awareness to concerns the ball can start rolling they can give you ideas of learning games to play and it could be developmental

was he prem baby? as prem babies seem to take longer with these things but not in all cases but more so than not

i was told by assessment team that most children will display autistic traits its whether they grow out of it that is why they monitor

but better to be a neurotic mum than wait until ds is alot older as the waiting list is about a yr in all

good luck and try not to worry to much easier said than done but ive been there and best to go and tell them your worries but also listen to advise they can give you as doesnt always mean autism

Although pointing is indicative of normal development, the underlying issue is shared attention. Pointing is the easiest way for a child to direct an adult's attention to what he wants but the child must have the underlying understanding that the adult has attention to be shared. An autistic boy that I know (slightly) points fairly often but what is unusual is that when he points at biscuits on a shelf, he does not notice or care that neither his father nor anyone else is looking (he understands pointing as cause and effect). By contrast my ASD son has always pointed for shared attention but in retrospect, I can see that at 12 months it was solely for his own purposes and was often the only shared attention in the day. My other son who is now 17 months points for shared attention but as he engages in shared attention all day anyway, the pointing does not particularly stand out. Most parents of NT children will not know when their baby first pointed as paradoxically given its importance, it is so much a 'given' that it often passes without notice. I don't know if anyone could suggest a milestone age for pointing but if not present by 18 months and if there are other 'oddities' it may indicate atypical development.

Thanks for all the answers! And the very interesting discussion...

my ds was pointing (and shouting..) all over the blardy place from about 10 months but this was early, lots of the other babies we know dont do it yet (at 12 months).
he is still an extremely enthusiastic pointer BUT he uses it to encourage us to get things for him or move him to things he cant reach - if Pancake Jnr is moving about himself a lot (he sounds very energetic) then he is probably satisfying his desires to get to what he wants already without needing to point. i suspect ds's zeal for pointing indicates incredible bossiness rather than anything else....

my ds was pointing (and shouting..) all over the blardy place from about 10 months but this was early, lots of the other babies we know dont do it yet (at 12 months).
he is still an extremely enthusiastic pointer BUT he uses it to encourage us to get things for him or move him to things he cant reach - if Pancake Jnr is moving about himself a lot (he sounds very energetic) then he is probably satisfying his desires to get to what he wants already without needing to point. i suspect ds's zeal for pointing indicates incredible bossiness rather than anything else....