Five year old girl telling me she wants to get a gun and kill me

[Bunza]

I'm from Australia and this is my first chat. I'm at my wits end. I have an extremely bright and intelligent girl who just turned five, starts school this year but can turn from and angel to a demon in a millisecond. It doesn't matter if we're out in public, if she decides to she will pull cans off supermarket shelves and throw them at me, spit at me, hit me, kick me, punch me, scream, tell me she hates me and the latest is to tell me she wants to kill me. I'm very upset and have gone to numerous parenting nights to try and resolve this. I always stick to my 'no' and try not to let her see me cry and try to be consistent at all times but it is hard especially when out and about. Any suggestions?

Bunza, how do you deal with it when she has these temper tantrums in public? Kids are very quick to sense when a parent (or anyone else) is reacting to them. My guess would be that there is something that you are doing in reaction to these tantrums that is giving her the message (whether you mean to or not) that there is something to be achieved by this behavior. I "cured" my stepson's temper tantrums (he was 5 at the time) by taking him out of the store that we were in, standing 5 or 10 feet away from him and ignoring him until the tantrum stopped (10 or 15 min. the first time, less the 2nd). It was super embarrassing, but it only took 2 incidents and the tantrums stopped. By the way he's 9 now and still does them for his mother, because as he's clearly articulated to us "she lets me."

Hi Bunza - So sorry for all your dealing with at this time. I am also a mom of 3 so I do know somewhat of what you are going through. Mine are 13 (whos pretty good) 10 (who is a little mouthy at times) and 2 (who can really be a temper tantrum nightmare).
I dont want to sound neg in anyway because I truley understand but do you ever feel that the fits are a little more then the normal thing. I realize kids throw tantrums with screaming and yelling and other ways. Its just the throwing cans at you in stores, spitting at you and mostly saying she wants to kill you seems to be little more of a worry to me.

I do agree that ignoring the tantrums is the best thing unless she is doing something to hurt you, someone else, or even herself. Also sticking to 'no' with a serious firm attitude is good too. I think you are handling the situation quite well. I wish you the best and hope things get better.

My sister teaches in a nursery school and at least once a month she has tales of children wanting to hit her, kill her, get their dad to run her over etc! I think it is just an 'extreme' phase they go through but I am sure do not mean it or even understand what they are saying. My nephew went through a stage of hitting, saying spiteful things etc at my SIL and she got her health visitor involved to look at tactics for dealing with this behaviour and also spoke to the school. He hadn't long started school either. Maybe you could have a chat with your health visitor. SIL found hers very helpful.

Bunza, hello.

I think you are doing so well just being consistent. I sounds to me like dd is saying these spiteful things to you as a way of getting attention and pushing boundaries. I really hope this is a passing phase, because I agree with threeangles, some of what you describe, like the throwing cans off supermarket shelves, does sound a bit extreme. But lots of it doesn't.

My sons - 8 and 3 - are not good in shops - I don't have mega high expectations of the 3 year old, but the 8 year old will still be much too loud and disobedient. He was worse when he was 5, however, and now doesn't tantrums as such, so to some extent his bad behaviour was a passing phase.

Long ago I developed a thick skin. If he lay on the floor screaming I ignored him. Often I had to, in order to do the necessary shopping. My son, on the whole, was only too pleased to be escorted out of a shop. He mostly only tantrummed if he found the shop or the shopping trip boring.

I found the promise of a treat at the end of the shopping trip or outing - an ice cream or small toy, worked well on his behaviour.

Also, I think as has been said, it's worth seeing if you can avoid the situation that causes a tantrum - internet shopping, etc.

I think you have three elements to consider - the choice of trip - is this particular trip going to spark off bad behaviour?

What you do on the trip, before a tantrum strikes - is dd getting tired, hungry, bored? do we need a break to keep her on an even keel? Depending on your dd, stepping up the preventative action could work wonders.

And what happens during a tantrum - how you choose to deal with it.

No magic answers, but you are not alone in this.

Bunza, just a quick one, not much time but have you thought of a star chart that gets rewards for good behaviour? We also had a nightmare a while back with 5 yo wilful ds and instigated a bad behaviour book too. I know lots of people think it's a bad idea but we did lots of rewarding good behaviour alongside a book for writing down bad behaviour. In my case there was no way I could ignore the bad since it was violence (hitting and punching me) too and I had to do something. We only wrote in the book for extremely bad stuff and for every 3 things written down something was taken away: a trip, a toy, a privilege etc. It worked and we don't need it really now. It also meant that I didn't react immediately to bad stuff, just calmly wrote it down so it helped me because a) I could see exactly how often this was b) he knew I was doing something about it and wouldn't tolerate violence and c) gave me a minute to calm down. He soon decided that the star chart rewards and ensuing treats were nicer than the punishments etc and it really made a difference to us. Anyway, it's not for everyone but helped me. It is hard isn't it, dealing with violence? They're strong at that age too. Good luck.

Thank you everyone, it's been a while since I could get back on to read your advice. I have been considering a professional but also thought that when she starts school in a couple of weeks this may also help (I pray). The problem mostly seems to be sibling rivalry toward her 2 yr old sister, mostly the envy will be taken out on me but sometimes she will try to hurt her sister too. I have a friend who was here looking after them two days ago and my elder daughter pushed my younger into something deliberately and hurt her. My friend calmly (without emotion) took her to her room and made her sit on her bed for 10 minutes. She then went back and asked her why she was being punished. She then asked her how she might feel if someone pushed her into something to hurt her. Basically, she put my daughter in the other's shoes. She then would not let the younger accept the 'sorry' to get out of the room but made her sit there and think about it until the 'sorry' was genuine. I have tried this since and we have had some success but also some failures. No emotion seems to be the key. OK if you're not the mum? Hard when you are.