Please help! Desperate in terms of sleep training - Don't know what to do next!

[angel1976]

Hi all,

I have a DS who just turned 13 weeks. In just under 3 weeks, I will be travelling with him alone to Singapore - yes, a 12-hour flight away. He is usually such a good little sleeper and has started sleeping through the night this week (sleeps at about 6.30pm. dream feed at 11pm and goes through till 6/7pm. He also used to have really good naps - 2 hours in the morning, 2.5 hours at lunch and a short nap in the afternoon. What is my problem then?

Well, he sleeps in his Amby at night and his cradle swing during the day. When we go to Singapore, he will obviously need to sleep in the bassinet they provide on the plane and in Singapore, he will be sleeping in a travel cot. So I thought I better get him used to sleeping on a flat surface. However, his naps have gone to pot this week because of me trying to put him to sleep during one of his naps in the cot. His naps usually are so easy. I can see him getting tired, I stick him on the cradle swing, put the music on and usually he is fast asleep in 10 minutes. With the cot, he screams blue murder and when I have calmed him down enough to put down, he starts crying again. This goes on till he finally goes to sleep but will only sleep for 40/50 minutes max before the crying starts again.

And now, he won't take long naps in his cradle swing anymore either. I suspect he is overtired (as I have been trying to put him to sleep in the cot for his first nap) because if I put him to sleep in his cradle swing for his first nap. He will sleep for hours still....

What do I do now? My nerves are so frayed from his constant crying. I don't know if I should try CIO or CC (anyone tried it with a baby below 4 months with success?). I really don't want to do that if I can help it! Or should I just let him sleep in his cradle swing and wing it on the plane? When he goes to Singapore, he won't have a choice but to sleep on what's there! Is there even a point to me trying so hard to get him to sleep in his cot now when everything is going to change in less than 2 weeks? HELP!

Ax

Hi angel,

Sounds traumatic getting your ds into a cot. He will be ready for it later, but not now it does not sound.

Can you pack the amby for Singapore (to go into cargo on the plane).

On the plane, you can try putting ds in the bassinet. Or I suspect he might prefer to sleep in your arms. Do you have a dp and is he travelling with you? You can take turns.

My 9-month dd ( who is an atrocious sleeper) slept in my arms for most of a 7 hour flight. If you are bf-ing, it is even easier. A 13-mther is still relatively sleepy, so should be easier.

Bring some medised, as a last resort, if it works for your ds (it does not work for dd).

13 weeker

I think lots of poeple will tell you that CC is not appropriate for so young a baby and CIO definitely NOT - far to little. nonono. Personally I won't do either anyway, but if you choose to, then wait till at least 6 months.

Around 3 mths/16 wks they often have a growth spurt which completely stuffs up any semblance of a routine that you might have been establishing, so don't think there's something wrong, it's normal! That said, you stil need to find a way of seeing you both through it.

With ds I actually let him go free form for a few days, to see when he did sleep/eat etc, and took note of when his "new" nap and feeding times seemed to land. They totally changed - so his previous pattern had obviously been outgrown. Maybe your ds is the same?

If he doesn't like his cot, have you tried a moses Basket? Cots can seem very big and open especially if he's been used to sleeping somewhere quite small with close sides that effectively hug him. Try a basket (flat one - good for babes to sleep flat to encourage good straight spinal growth I think) and then put the basket inside the cot so he gets used to it but still has the security of the sides being close to him.

Or get a sling - not a baby bjorn one but one that supports his back.

Don't worry it will get better! For the journey just keep him as close as possible to his usual timings but let him sleep when tired. That way his little body will adjust more easily than if you try and shoehorn him into a new routine with all the time differences etc! You might have a few periods of wakefulness during the night at first but work through it, keep dark rather than stimulating, and he will adjust surprisingly quickly.

have a lovely trip and don't worry, it does get easier!

Thanks for your encouraging words... DS is finally now sleeping in the cradle swing after having a half hour nap this morning in his cot (after a lot of crying and pacifying from both DH and me) and waking up crying and not sleeping despite calming down the moment he is in his swing...

blushoes DP is not coming on this trip as it's a last minute trip to surprise my family and he is too busy with work at the moment. I actually think he will go into the cot on the plane (we once went to a friend's house and it went past his bedtime and he actually slept in a travel cot with some fussing but not like the way he is at the moment!) as we are going on a night flight but have no problem if he wants to sleep in my arms for 12 hours... It's when we are in Singapore I am worried about! I will look into taking the Amby with us though it's really heavy!

kitbit I just feel so pressured into doing CIO by my MIL who insisted she did CIO with both of hers from 2 weeks onwards. But really don't want to but DS seems to be crying so much anyway... Thanks for your suggestions. Not sure if a basket will be too small right now as DS is quite big already! We did use a sling for when he was quite little but he seemed to dislike it as he got bigger but will look into that again.

Do you think I should just dump the sleep training for now? I just don't know if it is worth the grief when it's all going to change in 3 weeks anyway!

Thanks so much for replying, I feel better already...

Ax

angel, oh yes, just dump the sleep training. It is not worth it for such a short time and potentially emotionally damaging for a 13-week old who sounds like he is strenuously resisting the change. Your MIL belongs to a different era. I don't know any so-called expert, however routine-based, would advocate sleep training on such a young baby.

If I recall the amby (did not work on dd so I returned it), it is heavy but not horrendously so, particularly dismantled. I remember carrying up and down the stairs and I am not particularly strong. Perhaps similar weight to a substantial buggy - people pack those all the time.

See if you can get someone from your family to meet you at Changi airport to help with the amby. Changi airport is very friendly, in any case. Just ask a member of staff for help if you need. There are also lots of cabs outside the airport at the taxi queue. You probably already know this.

As for winging it, you might find that your ds will be more receptive to a change in routine in a different environment. Some parents use a holiday to make changes, for this precise reason. I know we managed to get my daughter to finally settle on her own in bed, when we were on holiday. She was 2.5!

Thanks so much for your kind words blueshoes. I just told DH I am dumping the sleep training for now. I am going to enjoy my DS, he is so cute when he is in a good mood but in a foul mood especially when he has not had enough rest (just like his daddy!). Also told DH that the next time his mum goes on about CIO, he will have to bat it off!

I just looked on the Amby website and the whole lot weighs 10kg. We have baggage allowance of 30kg combined so maybe I will take it with us. DH is getting us to the airport and helping us check in and my brother will be at Changi Airport to get us so it shouldn't be too much of a hassle!

I think Singapore might be a good opportunity for DS to get more flexible! Thank you once again for taking the time out to write! It's so hard for a first-time mum sometimes...

If you cannot pack the amby, will your ds settle in a buggy? If so, you can use that to get ds to sleep, ideally a lie-flat buggy. We used to wheel our dd to sleep in the buggy on holiday (even for night sleeps, where we would do it in the room or downstairs), leave her to sleep stationary, and then transfer her to the bed, when she started stirring.

Also, you can always take ds into your bed as a last resort. I found that with co-sleeping, dd did not pay much attention to her environment so long as I was there in bed with her.

cross-posted, angel.

Your ds sounds adorable. He knows what he wants . Have a nice trip. I know you and ds will have an absolute ball!

Believe it or not, DS hates sleeping in the bed with us! I know, it's hard to believe as everyone on MN seems to be trying to get their DCs OUT of their bed while my DS cries when he is on the bed with us. LOL! What a weird little monkey.

He is adorable, one of my friends said 'oh, you wouldn't want a well-behaved baby, you want a spirited one!' That made me feel much better. Hee hee. Thanks again blueshoes!

don´t worry about the trip, it is only one day of your life.

I´d say, forget about the sleep routine. There is no "insurance" against him crying anyway. Better to go with the flow. The hum of the motors might make him sleepy.

I´ve done it loads, to Chile (16 hrs) with two tiny dss. I have had trips where I was worried, and all was fine, and I have had one trip where one of them cried non stop, and the other vomited 6 times... , and though it was no fun at the time, we survived it. It was, as I keep saying, only ONE day of your life.

Somehow you just deal with it, and congratulate yourself with every hour that has passed.

And your DC sounds easygoing and will prob be fine!

I don't even know what an Amby is but when we were looking into similar problems i found that you can hire just about anything overseas if you're going somewhere at least moderately developed/urban. With such a lot of international families coming and going there's probably a service (you can find on the internet) in Singapore that will supply/rent baby goods on arrival. We nearly hired a travel cot in the US but in the end took the 9 kg one we had with us. I found a service for Cairo that would supply nappies and alsorts by brand so we didn't have to pack too much and rush around buying stuff when we got there.

Thanks Chandon and Acinonyx. I'm still in two minds about taking the Amby with me (Acinonyx, it's a baby hammock, see here!). But yes, I keep telling myself that if I have to carry DS in my arm for 12 hours, it's not going to kill me. Well, hope not anyway! I will ask around in Singapore to see if we can get an Amby there. But I think it might be a good opportunity anyway to get DS to sleep in something else other than his hammock or swing! My BEST-CASE scenario is that we go to Singapore, he learns to sleep in a travel cot and when we come home, he can go into his cot! But of course, things like that NEVER happens in real-life.

thougts:

get the door-hanging kit for the AMby - it's the frame that's the heavy bit so leave that at home

or get a travel cot with a suspended bassinet thus or similar - they rock quite nicely inside the bigger cot

and do whatever it takes to get you through the flight, don't wory too hard about that

Definitely dump the sleep training! Far too young. Things have changed since our parents' generation, when it was very much in fashion to do CIO. More research has been done since and found it to be damaging (either damaging any way you look at it, or just damaging when done at an early age, depending on your opinion )
Whatever happens, try not to be influenced by people pressuring you and go with your instincts. And yes, he'll be changing very quickly at the moment so any settling you do will be upturned next time he hits a major milestone, or teething starts etc etc, so for the moment it's just best to go with the flow and try not to worry about it too much (ha! easier said than done I know!)

If you do want to carry ds around, really do recommend a sling though, especially as you will be in unfamiliar places and being close to you might help ds to settle more easily, plus be easier on the arms!

What is CIO? Sorry

MrsBadger There is a door-hanging kit for the Amby??? Really????

it's not specific to the AMby - have a look under baby hammocks then the 'Bambi' door clamp here

That's excellent MrsBadger! I will have a look. I might even be able to persuade the family to drill a hook in the ceiling seeing as they are moving soon enough... LOL! Thanks!

Forget the cot! Really doesn't matter. And he will hate it at the moment because it's too big for him and he'll feel exposed and scared. ds slept in his Moses basket until about 2 months and then either coslept with us (if you do cosleeping it's really easy to manage those who don't approve - just don't tell 'em ) or slept in moses basket inside cot next to our bed.
Don't do something just because it's important to your mother in law. I spent a lot of time (still do) telling people what they think are the right answers because it makes them happy, then doing my own thing.
them: "is he good?" (WTF does THAT mean??)
me: (head tilted, soppy smile) "yeeeesss"
them: "does he sleep through?"
me: "oh, yeeessss" (like the Churchill dog!)

"oh yeess" really means "it's important to you that he sleeps through so you'll be happy if I say yes. Telling you I was up 4 times in the night is only going to lead to a conversation I don't want to have and it won't change the fact that I'll be up again 4 times tonight".

No-one tells you before you have a baby that part of motherhood is managing other people!

Hi kitbit,

You sound truly like the expert mum! LOL... My MIL seems to think DS is THE perfect baby (and though I love him to death and he's a real character but he is definitely not perfect, he's a bit of a grump TBH but a cute one!). Two nights ago, they asked us if we wanted to go bowling and have dinner last night. WTF? And what were we meant to do with the baby (DS goes to sleep at 6.30pm, I can't keep him up any longer than that!)? They said 'oh, there's enough of us...' To do what? Carry him while he bawls his eyes out? I would have much preferred it if they told us a lot earlier and we could get a babysitter and then I can enjoy a stress-free night out. I just think it's a bit much to expect a 3-month-old baby to 'enjoy' a night out bowling...

I am going to try your 'oh yes' tactic or just say a firm 'no' and leave it at that instead of getting into a discussion about her why the current guidelines (by official government health organisations) are wrong by her!

Thanks!

Ax

angel, kitbit has got it sussed.

If you don't have a textbook baby (I like those 'spirited' ones as well) and you are happy with what you are doing, then don't bother to engage with others about whether what you are doing is right or wrong.

I only got the confidence to do this with No.2 when I saw how No.1 just got on with things in her own time anyway.

I NEVER ask for advice. And I don't moan that 20-month ds was up and down for hours last night. You can come on mn for advice though

Great tactic for meddling MILs and HVs is just to nod to everything they say with a beatific smile, even if you are rolling your eyeballs into your head. Then get the h__ out of there.

there is no point trying to "persuade" their generation of anything, they just think they know best...

my mum is constantly telling me i need to give the dds a "smack" - not for anything particularly bad, just if they don't do as i say.

mil keeps telling me the fruit juices i give them are disgusting (like innocent smoothies and full of sugar. she would much rather i gave them "sugar-free" juices full of aspartame and chemicals.

you just have to ignore ignore ignore!

Just 'talked' (via FB) to a friend in Singapore who coincidentally has a cradle swing (exact one DS has!) that he is happy to lend to me while DS is in Singapore if DS dead refuses to take a nap in anything else! Lucky me!

kitbit It's so hard to have that confidence when you are a first-time mum and you are trying to be polite when people give you advice you haven't asked for or really want. MIL always goes 'Oh, you have to do things your way...' BEFORE launching into how I should let DS CIO, sleep on his front etc etc... I told DH that I can see how having a second one would be MUCH easier (even if you have a toddler to contend with!) as you would have been there, done that and the confidence to tell others to f* off!

amidaiwish LOL - Too funny! We had chocolate eclairs yesterday with a cup of tea when the PILs dropped by for a quick visit on the way to the dinner and bowling (and tried to persuade us to go AGAIN!) and MIL kept rubbing her finger on the chocolate and rubbing it on DS's lips so he could lick it while saying 'He's not really getting any chocolate, it's just my finger he is licking...' WTF? Anyway, I know a little sugar won't kill him so kept my mouth shut. Mind you, she is trying to persuade me to wean him and he's only 3 month! Madness...

LOL, nah, I am expert in precisely one little boy and one MIL!!! blueshoes is absolutely right - anyone who gives you unsolicited advice, just smile and say "OK". People find it very difficult to say directly "but you're not doing what I suggested!"
your MIL sounds like a PITA though. Firstly at finger with chocolate. Not least the attempt to sneak in under your views on weaning (3 mths - in the 70's thought to be OK, now considered far too young) but URGH at putting her dirty finger in his mouth. She could upset his stomach with unaccustomed sugar or worse, with bacteria from finger.

I agree it's hard to stand firm. The 20 year old me would have had a really hard time standing my ground but the 35 year old me is a bit more confident in my own instincts. But if MIL keeps pressing you you can go the route of bombarding her with info "that was a really common method in the 70's but current research suggests that.....
weaning should not be before they can sit up unaided to minimise risk of oesophagus folding and them choking
...or CIO leads to feelings of abandonment and can be damaging to the parent child relationship
....blahdy blah etc

...or you can choose to agree and ignore "thank you I'll bear that in mind" or "oh what a good idea" or better still "well what an unusual idea. Everyone I know does it this way" (my favourite)

Can you tell I had to do a lot of fending off in the early days??!

meant to say...YAY about the cradle swing!!