How do I cope with a 3 year old that just won't listen or do as he's told?

[desperatelyseekingsleep]

DS1 has turned into a nightmare child over the last week or so. He's permanently distracted, doesn't listen to anything I say and just won't do as he's told. I'm finding myself getting increasingly angry with him which is just making the situation worse. How do I deal with this and make him listen? I thought the terrible twos were bad but this is even worse - will it ever get better or have I just landed myself with a willful disobedient child? Just as an example today, he wouldn't get into the car in a multi-storey car park, after various threats about no telly before bedtime etc, I ended up trying to manhandle him in. This made him really angry to the point where he made himself hoarse with screaming and crying, everyone was staring at us, presumably thinking what an appalling mother I was, as by this time, I was shouting at him too... I jsut feel like such a failure that I can't even handle a 3 year old without turning into a screaming banshee. I'm so fed up of people giving me that "poor you" look. Is it me or is it him? Am I going to end up on Supernanny?[trying to be funny in a desperate circumstance emoticon]

Desperately, are you me? I have EXACTLY the same problem at the moment with ds2 -you could be describing him. Ds1 was never like this so was thinking it was just him . So, no advice, but if you don't mind I'll wait here in case someone comes along with some!

I tbh wouldn't stand nagging a 3yo to get into a car. If he didn't do it straightaway I'd just pick him up cheerfully and put him in his seat with a brisk 'there we go then'. If he screams I'd just ignore it. Everybody has seen screaming toddlers before.
What I'm saying is, pick your battles. At this age it's not vitally important that he obeys because he's obedient iyswim. If you carry on calmly ensuring that what you want gets done he will one day get the message.

Firstly, it happens to us all so don't feel bad. I had to manhandle my (then) 3 year old in bloody centre parcs and a crowd formed to watch us. AND it was the week after Madeleine McCann went missing and three different people came over and asked her if she knew 'this lady'...so you are not alone. It could well be a phase or maybe he is testing you out. Obviously you have got to stick to your guns but iy sounds like you are anyway. I find distraction the best. I deserve an oscar for my enthusiasm when delivering such lines as 'ohhhhhh I wonder if we will see a green bus on the way home!!!' or 'I bet thatcat is still in our garden COME ON LET"S GO AND SEE!! I can sound excited about pretty much anything. I also used to carry a scrap of fabric in my bag which I used as a portable naught mat...

Thanks for the advice Cory. DS hates being picked up/touched when he's not expecting it though, so I'm not sure that would work with him... I just feel like all the calm has been drained out of me and has left me feeling permanently angry. I'm so wound up by him that it's gone past picking my battles - I do let him get away with an awful lot. Buttercream, how do you cope?

I haven't had to deal with the scenario too often, only literally maybe 1 or 2 times outside, 2 or 3 times inside. Inside is easier you can do steps 1 and 2. Outside you may have to go 5.

1st. Don't lose control. It just escalates the behaviour.
2nd. Don't panic. Wait it out.
3rd. Don't let other people phase you. Keep a smile on your face.
4th. After a while (that you decide) short sharp telling off. Quick and to the point. Maybe a threat or just a telling off.
5th. Learn how to man handle your little one.

No matter how much struggling he could do, I could always get him in his seat in a few quick moves.

My DS who's nearly 3 has weeks like this. It often coincides with either a growth spurt or a "brain spurt" when he' sseems to learn a whole load of new stuff. I wonder if it actually causes them pain or just makes them feel bewildered and they act out. It's definitely normal, and even better it might calm down again soon.

I will physically put him in the car etc. if necessary, and I chat to him through the screaming as if it isn't happening, I try not to get in a state because it makes him more distressed. Eg I say "Oh dear, you really are cross, never mind, you'll feel better soon" and distract as savoy says: "Oh look a that man with pink hair, shall we tell daddy about that later, you can tell daddy how you helped me carry the shopping too" etc - focus on his good side. My DS also responds well to taking a cuddly toy with him and having it to hug when he's upset - helps him calm down. Or i joke and say "Oh poor rabbit, that terrible screaming noise is hurting his ears, maybe you could scream quietly instead?" However it is a combination of things that gets us through, no one single thing and there are times nothing works. You just have to carry/pull them along screaming and brazen it out.

can you make it fun instead of using a you against him scenario?

for eg, the car seat thing, say "let's see who can get to the car first? ooooh you won! Right, let's get you strapped in nicely, ooooh do you want your biscuit/book now or later (or whatever bribe)"

imo, a battle of wills does NOT work, if you use distraction and fake enthusiasm, it does

dd2 was dreadful (and still can be) but I find if I shout and get strict it does now work, if I play games, it does

pain in the arse when you are tired though, you feel like saying oh ffs just do it already

Clearly you can't do this in a multistorey, but you might be able to do this at home: in the driveway during a similar situation I've given up, got in the car, shut the door and started the engine. Ds very quickly decided he wanted to be in the car and appologised for being naughty at refusing to get in.

I also second distraction.

I also make sure that I praise good behaviour and comment on it - at the time and sometimes also later on eg bedtime eg 'x told me that you were really good at nursery today and did a beautiful picture/sat and listened very nicely at circle time/whatever - it makes mummy really happy when you listen/are careful/are such a nice boy/whatever' ... this does seem to help to reinforce the good behaviour when it happens!

If you work it out can you let me in on the secret

We have a Cbeebies cd (very grim but very necessary) and it's great for getting my toddlers into the car. If I get in first then I choose my cd and if they get in nicely then they can listen to their cd and we all sing along with it. Obviously I never ever get to listen to my cd but it's worth it.

i had this in TK Maxx with my 3yo, we were walking down the stairs talking brightly about what we would do at home, when he says "i want to go down those stairs mummy" pointing at the ones going up in front of us, we were half way down on a landing if you get me. I say "well doesn't matter, we are almost down now, lets go down these stairs" cue throwing oneself on floor "i wanna go down THOSE STAIRS mummy!" queue forming behind us so I quietly say "ok, you go up those ones and come down those stairs instead, mummy will wait here with Edward" (Edward his twin and had already gone down the stairs quite happily, didn't want to drag him back up so we could walk down a different set of stairs). More screaming that I had to go with him....

it finished with me picking him up by him arm and 'walking' him down the stairs, I think his feet were about a centimetre off the floor! He then screamed up to the checkout, while I was at the checkout and all the way to the car "i want DADDY, i want DADDY!" I burst into tears in the car and he fell asleep!

my coping tactic, I don't take him to TK Maxx anymore

Too true Meeely. We have loads of coping tactics just like that!

MOre support and empathy from over here as i have done plenty of the dragging-screaming-child-along-the-road myself. Just remember that most if not all your days contain at least as much fun, giggles and good behaviour as they do screaming and shouting, no matter how it feels.

I also rely on the tactic of being worryingly enthusiastic about the most mundane things in the world "OOohhh ! What was that?! Was it a red car? Did you see?"

But sometime sds will tantrum his way through all that fizz and then I resort to telling him off, counting to 3, manhandling. With immediate turn round to happy smiley as soon as it is "done".

I do feel like I should be on drugs sometimes though, being so irritatingly chirpy and positive and enthusiastic. It is exhausting!

Cope? I'm not sure I am . I try so hard not to lose patience but he always seems to know the very best time to have a tantrum (which is usually about nothing and comes from nowhere) for example when ds3 is going to bed or when we absolutely have to be somewhere 10 minutes ago. I have to admit that sometimes reasoning works but only if I can catch him before he works himself up into a complete frenzy. The naughty step doesn't work because he doesn't seem to care and even when I try and talk to him about his behaviour when he is calmer, he just doesn't seem to hear me...

You have to wait till he's 4!

DS was a terrible 3 year old as well, I longed for the 2's!

A few things helped. Tigana's idea of enthusiam, tis very good.

Also, he hated shouting so I stopped shouting from frustration and used it as the punishment, so I'd warn him if he didn't do so and so then I would shout at him. He also liked his freedom at that age so I would warn him that I would have to hold his hand, or pick him up and carry him.

As the 3's wore on being a Big Boy became important, so in casual conversation it helped to talk about what Big Boys do so then it can be referred back to. Lots of praise for being a Big Boy and Wow Doing It All By Yourself!

Giving two options, the one you want, and one they would (hopefully) find worse, but that you are able to do there and then. Like you can get in the car or we can stand here and do nothing all day

Also it helps if you can see this from his point of view. So what is distracting him? Can you talk to him about it and so he's fulfilled and can move on. If he's having a good time was there sufficient warning it would stop? Does he think what is coming next isn't enjoyable and is there any way to make it so?

Of course I've said all this, but it's not a guide! It might help you keep your sanity! Truly the only thing that has definitely worked with ds is getting older. In fact I marvelled at him this morning as I told him we had to leave the toy shop and he just left! No asking for more time, no asking me to buy him anything, no tantrums, no attempts at bargaining! I was amazed.

desperatelyseekingsleep on Wed 21-May-08 14:31:48
"Thanks for the advice Cory. DS hates being picked up/touched when he's not expecting it though, so I'm not sure that would work with him... "

Oh, I wasn't suggesting pouncing on him with no warning, most of us would hate that. More that you could say (not as a threat but as a question): 'Would you like to get into the seat yourself or shall Mummy lift you?'. If he then refuses to budge, you can pick him up and plonk him in - he's had fair warning. If he hates it, he'll know not to choose that option next time. Choices are good, as Summat said, though I would make it a choice between two things that you can cope with (i.e. only say 'or we'll stay here all day' if that really fits in with your plans). The main thing is not to let him know that you are worried by his screaming.

Having said this, I totally agree with what several posters have said about distraction tactics. Well worth working on. Also what was said about giving him advance warning. I used to tell dd 5 mins before we were due to leave the park, and then as we were leaving encourage her to wave bye bye to the swings.

And yes, everybody's right- it does come to an end and it's a wonderful relief. Three really is quite a hard age.

Thanks guys, lots of really useful tips there that I will try and use. Feeling a lot more positive about it today (probably because ds1 is at nursery ). I must just keep reminding myself that it's only a phase...

God you are definitely not the only one. My 3 year old dd really is the most obstinate, infuriating, disobedient child there ever was...

The worse thing is when she calmly walks out of the garden gate on to the pavement even though I am screaming myself hoarse for her to STOP! NOW! She has done this about 3 times in the last month Or trying to hold the cat by his neck even though she has been told numerous times that this is not good for it.

I know this isn't any help to you but I just wanted to share the fun!

....I do love her to bits though

My nearly 3 year old sounds so similar. I was at my wits end with him a few months ago and feeling really low. He is the so wilful and lively and getting angry just doesn't work and escalates into World War 3.

I found these two books incredibly helpful. They are both really good on how to stay calm and be more consistent when dealing with strong-willed kids. I've kind of been doing a combination of the approaches in both books ... giving 3 calm warnings and then a consistent consequence ... which sounds scary but it's things like no book in the car if you won't get in (whatever they like doing in the car!)

setting limits for your strong willed child

123 Magic

Both mine were awful at three. At about three and a half to be exact. They drove me insane. I shouted and screamed. Oh god it was terrible.

Commiserations. This, truly, will pass. I now have a really quite charming seven and five year old.

H is a really wilful naughty shouting and cry for no reason 3.6 year old at the moment. This week has been particularly bad, although mostly with me I have noticed, not with DH, although I do the majority of childcare....he asks questions till he gets a no and then melts down. Woke up screaming at 4.30am this morning, "I want my black gun with the red stripe" (doesn't exist) and carried on demanding it later when he woke up again. I looked for it for 10 minutes with him in the playroom and then gave up as had to get ready for work "oh H you must be really sad that you can't find it, how annoying for you, perhaps playing with this instead would be ok for now till we can find it later" etc, cue massive tantrum. Shut him in the playroom to have his hissy fit while I had a shower, came down 6 minutes later, he apologised, we hugged, all fine again. Till next time.

I fear my trials started yesterday when DS (nearly 3) threw a proper pavement biting tantrum right outside nursery. He wanted a wee but was too furious to say 'yes' to my polite enquiries.

I shouted. Bedtime a nightmare.

This evening, very tired after nursery, he lost all reason whilst in the bath. I let the water out and went and sat with DH who was playing his guitar, whilst DS wept and ranted in the empty bath. 10 mins later DS came for a cuddle and we listening to some crooning and then read the Grufallo while he fell asleep looking blissful and as if he'd never had a tantrum in his life.

i have no idea what I'm doing, but figure that its just started, and whenever a new 'phase' starts I'm all at sea and losing it randomly. But you soon get a few tactics together and it gets easier...until the next 'phase'.

I am going through this at the moment and find ds sometimes actively looks for things that he can have a hissy fit over. It's reassuring to know that it's not just me and he is well behaved as far as I know at nursery. I've tried counting down from 5-zero (I,ve heard it's better to count down as you can't be tempted to carry on and they soon learn that).