arrgghhh I hate myself - I just lost it with ds :(

[whoops]

I have on going problems with ds ignoring me, running off, not doing as he is told etc. I'm getting fed up of being the only parent in the playground shouting at their child, having him demand things from me, not taking no for an answer.
Tonight I blew at him, shouted at him wanting to know why he does it to me and not dh. we both ended up in tears but I hope tomorrow he'll be a different boy as I really don't know what to do anymore I just want hmim to start behaving

Hi - sounds like me and DS1. Who old is your DS? Mine is almost 4.

I don't think its bad that you shouted at him as he will know that his behavoir is not acceptable. I rarely shout at my DS which sounds like you, so when I do it does have an effect and he is generally better behaved.

With him running off, have you tried reins or the threat of them if he is too old. This stops DS1 in his tracks.

Is your DS very strong minded? If so, it could be worth giving him options to try and get him to do things. For eg my DS1 moans and groans when he is walking along, so I give him the option of telling me when he wants to stop for a rest then let him tell me when to walk again which makes him better.

Hope this helps and isn't just a huge ramble.

How old is he whoops?

he is 6, I have had problems for at least 2 years, he was disruptive at nursery etc. we did see a behavioural nurse who blame my lack of discipline I have cancelled things and always followed through with threats none of it seems to work.
I am tempted to take him to our new doctors and see if I get any more support from them

I think threats only work for a very short time, especially if you don't follow them through.
Do you think there is a lack of discipline there?

maybe he is one of those children who need to be given choices and options and allowed a little more negotiation. Some kids just seem more anti-authority and by imposing it you'll just be trying to push water uphill and making your long term relationship with him suffer.

Doesn't mean he's your equal, you're still in charge because at the end of the day you ARE in charge but before you get to the stage of punishments maybe you could put in oodles more negotiation, ask him what he thinks, etc.

For instance don't tell him it's time to go, why not instead say "if we go now we can watch so and so but if you want to stay longer we can", that sort of thing.

i wouldn't let the disruptiveness at nursery stick too much in your mind actually; lots of boys can be distruptive at that stage if they are particularly physical and have that strong minded anti-authority thing.

I don't think there is lack of discipline. We have always carried through with threats - people have been shocked at time with some of the things we've stopped him from doing even to a planned trip to lego land that his sister went to instead of him beacuse he had misbehaved and was warned it would happen.
He behaves better for dh as dh will smack him when he steps out of line but I hate that and don't want to have to do that too

He sounds like a strong willed child.

I think you have to find ways of negotiating with such children rather than being the "authority figure". Listening to them and following their ideas as often as possible. Modelling the kind of interaction you want them to have with you, if you see what I mean.

And of doing a lot through actions not words. I'm not talking about physical discipline (eurgh), I'm talking about offering the things you want to offer in actions not words - children often zone out of adults talking it's all just blah blah blah, but if someone hands them their coat and helps them on with their shoes, they are on the way to the park before they know it!

Ha!! Look! Cross posted, and in fact I AM HonoriaGlossop! (well, I'm not, but I might as well be if you read our two posts)

lol yes I did think they were similar!
I try negotiating with him, asking him what he wants but I never get replies

Then forget the words and do the negotiating with actions. Someone once said to me "instead of a paragraph say a sentence. Instead of a sentence say a word. Instead of a word, show what you mean with your body".

It was good advice for me (yackety yackety yackety)

Exactly what kind of bad behaviour are we talking about here?
Can you give me a typical example (however mundane?)

thanks, I will try that if he isn't a changed boy after our chat tonight!
although he has been warned that he won't be coming out with his friend who is visiting from Scotland in half term if he doesn't behave

he won't sit still when he is told and jumps over the furniture - where ever we are, at school, other peoples houses, shops.
He won't stop when I tell him to on the way home, we live on a busy road and I am terrified he is going to trip and fall into the road.
he has terrible strops if he doesn't get something other kids at school are - some of his class made biscuits the other day and it wasn't his turn - he couldn't see that he was going to get the chance to do some later in the week.

two minds with a single thought etc onward! Of course, I agree with you and think your advice is spot on

I think the half-term warning is possibly setting you all up to fail. Blimey, I don't think I could behave all the time till half term, let alone a child this age! I personally think this is too long-term, and too vague. He needs to be given an absolute no-fail guarantee in order for him to start to see himself as someone who CAN behave - i think you need to engineer it for him rather than giving warnings like that which he just WILL fail.

When you're negotating make sure it's very simple, don't ask him what he wants in those exact words but give two choices "Do you want to come home and watch star wars or do you want to play here some more?" possibly. And 'extend' your listening skills...wait a little longer for him to respond, then if you have to perhaps ask again maybe in a slightly different way.

i think all this might sound a little much but it's so worth it IMO to improve your relationship and his view of himself as a good child. Then things may fall into place a little, resentment dies down, and so does his resistance to authority.

Do you give him a chance to run off his energy?
Sports club, bike, park after school for an hour?
Some boys just need to run around like maniiacs for an hour a day!!
I think combined with school, it sounds like he is being told what to do an awful lot.
Some children don't respond to that and need rule-less time iyswim?

A thought (may or not be helpful!)
Are the 'threats' always clearly linked to the behaviour & very immeadiate? IME, even at 6 they struggle to put together x behaviour right now & y event next week (eg walk home from school nicely or you won't go to legoland - or whatever- next week)

I absolutely agree with HonoriaGlossop et al in terms of giving him choices, but if & when you are using punishments I'd try & make them more tangibly linked.
eg Ds knows that if he doesn't stop running when I tell him to, he has to hold my hand all the way home so i can make sure he's safe. Immeadiate response & clearly linked to the behaviour I want to change.

Have you read 'How to talk so kids will listen & listen so kids will talk'? Some great ideas in there

Funny, I haven't seen that book, will have a look thanks,
yes he gets told to walk nicely with me or he will have to hold me hand, all I get from that is him screaming down the road that I'm hurting him even when I'm not holding very hard (dd never complains)
We were told by the behavioural nurse to use events as something he will lose but I will look at more immediate treats.

I think the strops when he doesn't get something, are surprisingly common - ds is rising 6 and his classmates are mostly 6 - and they are THE most competitive and argumentative lot I've ever come across. Depending on their emotional maturity some kids find their emotions about this stuff just SO hard to govern.

Things like not stopping when you ask him to by the road; I think it's just non-negotiable; when ds has done this I have raised my voice and said I just will not have this, and held on to his hand with a vice like grip! I think you don't need to feel bad about doing this because it's about safety.

Jumping over the furniture etc sounds v annoying - can he be distracted? If you START by telling him to stop this may just be inflaming his resentment and anti-authority thing...maybe if you approach it my distracting him it might help. I do think this sort of thing is where having a really 'teamworky' relationship helps, because if a child feels he's a good child and adults like him, then they have a lot to lose if you say "our friends don't want you to do that in their house, what must they think of you for jumping on their furniture!" It just gives you more strategies I think

Hope some of this helps, realise you may have tried a lot of this already but thought it was worth a post

the jumping on furniture thing usually happens when I am sorting something in the school office, I tell him to sit still and he carries on running and jumping at the desk, the receptionist will tell him and he'll sit still (although I think if she told me to sit still I would ) but it feel very embarassig too that he won't do things when I want to but does for everyone else, I know that most kids are like this but I would like him just for once to do it when I ask him

Whoops your really not alone none of mine listen to a word i say until i shout at them, i hate shouting it makes me sound like a fishwife but i ask them nicely, i ask them firmly, i try to reason and then were late so i end up having to shout! they then look at me as if to say 'why are you shouting at me' like they haven't heard/registered the previous 50 times i asked

It makes me very cross sometimes but i think i feel it most when i'm tired/have no energy/loads to do etc as my patience runs very thin then - i feel like this at the moment actually as i haven't had a break from the kids for ages even at weekends i seem to be doing most of it as DP is doing things that the DC can't be invloved in like cutting down trees! so this Sat i have booked myself in for a cut and colour, small thing but i know that a couple of hours to myself will make a lot of difference and help get a fresh look at whats going on

I don't know about you but my DC pick up on my vibes very quickley and if i can't be arsed with them then they can't with me and they play up

I hope you have a better day tomorrow