What do you think my baby's problem is? Really getting me (and him) down...

[MabelMay]

Hi all - sorry, this might be a long one.

I have a 14 week old ds2, he was born quite big but has never been a huge feeder. For medical reasons, I'm sadly unable to breastfeed so he has been on the bottle from day one.

Anyway, for over a month now he is a nightmare when he feeds. Sometimes he just squirms and writhes around crying and going red; at other times he flips his head from side to side after just a few sucks and sometimes he makes a funny low groaning sound whilst he's sucking, takes about an ounce and then stops, crying.

HOWEVER, this doesn't happen with every feed. He feeds fine during his nightfeed (around 4am) as he is half asleep and it seems to be instinctual then.
Also, recently, my DP and I have found that if we cover his eyes with a blanket or similar and sit him in his bouncy chair rather than in our arms then he will feed a lot better. ! Basically, shutting out almost any outside stimulus.

I just don't get it. I don't think it's anything like reflux or lactose intolerance etc because when he's NOT feeding he's perfectly happy. Also, why would he feed okay at night if this was the case?

I'm also finding it really tough emotionally. Firstly, feeding is supposed to be a happy bonding time for mother and child but now I just dread every feed because I know it's going to be a horrible drawn out process and he doesn't seem to like being fed in my arms. Secondly, I have a 2 year old who obviously finds it tough that each feed takes at least an hour and involves an often crying baby and a very stressed mum.

I've seen my GP who was hopeless, didn't know what it might be. I saw a paed at a drop-in clinic who didn't really seem to know what it might be either but tentatively suggested silent reflux but I really don't think this is it as surely with reflux my baby would be uncomfortable AFTER the feed as well as during...?

Any ideas? It's really starting to get me down and I feel like I'm not coping very well with it. Reduces me to tears on countless of occasions.

Would love to hear what some of you think the problem might be. Have any of you experienced anything remotely similar?

Could it be that he's genuinely not hungry at those times or that the milk is at 'the wrong temperature' (according to him!).

A few of us breastfeeding found our LOs doing exactly as you describe - really curious and then after a small number of weeks it just stopped. lots of mums lost heart and went over to the bottle but it just seemed to be something in relation to their age / development.

How many feeds in 24 hours are stress free for him and how much is he taking?

Hi MabelMay, was wondering if you had considered taking your lo to a cranial osteopath or chiropractor. A chiropractor worked wonders for our DS2 who had a jammed neck from a very quick labour which ended in a ventouse delivery - we had the opposite problem to you as he was gulping feeds down too quickly and giving himself tummy ache as the sucking action was relieving the pain in his neck , but 3 treatments in and he was like a different baby. Just an idea but maybe your DS is in discomfort in the feeding position and this is something a cranial osteopath or chiropractor could help with. If you do go down this route try to find one that specialises in babies. HTH

Hi MabelMay - what can I say - I had exactly the same problem - I was also in tears at nearly every feed - its so hard - I have no idea what got into him - there is light at the end of the tunnel - I started him on solids at 18 weeks, after 6 weeks of hell, just to give it a go and he loves it - I don't know why but now his milk feeds are so much easier now he knows he is getting some solid stuff too - just pureed fruit and veg. Every now and again he goes nuts on me at feed time but life is much better. It used to be a major trauma at every feed other than the night feeds and the 7am feed. I know lots of people wouldn't start solids that early but it has worked for us. I also feed him in a chair and he definitely prefers that to be held. One trick that sometimes worked was to quickly put something in his mouth like bonjela and then stuff the bottle in - sort of distracts them and then you are in - but again that only worked for a bit. I do sympathise and understand totally how you feel - its horrible to see them so upset.

Thanks to all the latest posts.

Phlossie - thanks. Actually, we do use white noise on occasions but it's very hit and miss as to whether that works with his feeds. He's completely erratic.

thankyouandgoodnight - he is definitely hungry for most of the feeds. I've tried leaving an extra long gap in the hope that he'd just wolf milk down but it made no difference! A complete mystery. The only feed that is guaranteed stress-free is the feed he has in the night (usually around 3 in the morning). He has 4 other feeds during the day. Sometimes more if he is feeding particularly badly and i need to top him up.

firststeps - am seeing cranial osteopath friday morning. thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to try anything!

broms - wow that sounds exactly like my ds2. I don't suppose you ever discovered what was wrong? Did you ever get him looked at by a doctor? I've been thinking, as you say, that solids could be the answer. Obviously not yet, but I think they might improve the situation as they did for you - and so I don't think I'm going to wait until 6 months to wean him - not if he's still like this in a few weeks time. It's comforting to know that it might get better. Find it so upsetting. thank you.

Broms, sorry I'm going to fire a few more questions at you -

how much would you manage to get down your ds at each feed? Would you keep going and going until he'd had most of it? Or would you just give up when it got too much? Did he start waking more at night because he wasn't having enough during the day? Did you think it was a physical problem he was having (ie something like silent reflux), or more emotional (ie highly distractible)?

I'll try your bonjela trick!

MM, just a quick post, as I'm supposed to be decorating . This does sound quite similar to my DS, except that my DS threw up as well most (but not all) of the time. He had reflux and was really uncomfortable feeding, but as others have said, every now and then, he would just down his feed because he needed the food. So, could be your LO has silent reflux. Also, turns out now he is intolerant to dairy and egg and apparently dairy intolerances are often linked with reflux. So, may well be getting that anti-reflux formula from your GP and giving it a try.
Also, as others have said, he did grow out of it (by 8 months) and it does fade into a distant memory - I know that doesn't help much now and I hope the other advice helps.

When my ds was born he wouldn't feed with me holding him in a "comfy" position but if i held him away from me holding his hed he fed fine he is 11 weeks now and still doing it at times but he is now sleeping from 8pm right through to 7 so feeding a bit better

I do think it could be reflux.

My DD had silent reflux and the only bottle that ever went without a problem to begin with was the bedtime bottle. The sleepier she was the easier she was to feed. Daytime feeds were a total nightmare, especially the 3pm. She would scream and arch her back and get really very upset. We went on to Infant Gaviscon from the doctor and by November when she was 7 months I thought it had gone so I stopped. Big Mistake!

How wrong???? Between Xmas and the end of January she vommitted almost every night only to then take a whole bottle afterwards. Weaning was a total nightmare and the whole experience was horrible for all of us.

During this time I could not hold her to feed her. If I so much as touched her back she would vomit. This, according to the Cranial Osteo was because her diaphragm (spell?) was so tight it was a reflex. I laid her on a pillow, as upright as possible to try to stop her from choking. And I still do to this day although she now likes to hold the bottle herself.

So, finally got a Doc referral to a Paed Consol in February and they diagnosed Reflux. During this two month time she gained no weight has her backbone was hideously visable. She was put on Zantac and Gaviscon. In one day she was a changed child. It was amazing, she started to gain weight and the crying and vomiting went.

She is still a poor eater and if she has so much as a cold or sniffle she stops food and just has milk. She is now a year and just lovely. Also I know the trigger foods now, too much yogurt or pre-biotic type cereals will give her terrible diarrheoa, with this comes reflux as her whole system is out of synche again and the vomiting starts.

So, I really feel for you. It is horrible. You know they are hungry but the burning in the back of their throat is just too much. I used to sing and sing to her while she fed to stop her coming off the bottle. Once she was off the burning would start and she would not take any more. It is sole destroying but there is treatment that can help. Good luck xx

Just read your thread again MabelMay and I can say that on a bottle that went down fine, DD was fine. No discomfort or crying afterwards.

I also found cutting out stimuli helped, the more stressed the baby the worse the reflux.

Just my theory but I would really push for a referral, is he gaining weight OK or not? If you can prove he is not gaining or in gaining very slowly then that is the key criteria for a paed referral.

I feel for you I really do, I would end up crying everyday, I just wanted DD to be happy.

Thats it, I am done interferring!

Hi MabelMay - I did perservere with him at every feed as I was so worried about him not eating anything - eventually he would take between 4-7oz. But poor boy I think he was so tired after all the screaming there was no other option for him. I took him to the doctor gaviscon was given - that helps with keeping it down but obviously not with the initial problem of crying and squirming which is the main problem. Took him to a cranial osteopath - he said nothing wrong - I took him again as I was so worried - and only thing he suggested was feeding upright, changing the milk, rubbing something on his gums in case it was the bottle hurting his mouth. the 11pm feed was always ok so he did sleep through til 7am however he has never seemed interested in milk and never screamed for it because he was hungry! just screamed when it came near him! someone else suggested that it was just habit for him to scream like that as he always ended up taking the milk - she said try and break the cycle by doing something completely different ie bonjela trick. I swear by solids for mine - give it a go when you feel ready. good luck.

Hi MabelMay - hope the cranial osteopath is able to help - let me know how you get on

Thanks everyone for latest posts and advice. I went to my (useless) GP yesterday who wouldn't give me prescription for anti-reflux milk because a) she'd never heard of it [she often seems quite clueless] and b) my ds2 is not losing weight, altho he IS falling off his centile more and more. so that was frustrating. However, he is on Gaviscon now, altho so far (after 4 feeds or feed attempts) it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference; but I'll see how it is in a couple of days.

firststeps, cranial odteopath is coming friday morning. will let you know if it does that trick. here's hoping (very optimistically)!

MM x

Just skimmed thread so sorry if this had been said what formula are you using?

DD1 had sma gold and was fine, however, dd2 was like your ds on sma swapped her to aptamil and after 4 days she'd take at least 75% of eqach feed fairly fuss free

eandh, he IS on aptamil.

maybe i should swap him to sma!!
funnily enough i was thinking of trying him on a different formula so went out this morning and bought cow & gate. will try that. so does it take a few days for the new formula to take effect?

Hello,

If MabelMay is out there, I'd be very interested to know if your problems have been resolved. I'm going through exactly the same and have a demanding/jealous 2 year old also. I'm tearing my hair out and am so down about it.

Hello,havent read all of the responses - am meant to be making tea!

My little girl is 6 and a bit months. From week 2 she was a little bit like this (except at night feeds) and reflux was diagnosed. Silent reflux as she was rarely sick.She was very wriggly feeding but always wanting to feed, so a bit different. Lots of crying but no real pattern to it.

She was put on gaviscon but it didnt really help.

At 4 months I tried colief with some success, but this wore off after 2 weeks. It was as though she became immune to any positive effects.

At 5 and a bit months i weaned her with big big improvements (less milk). Now she is back on the gaviscon and she is a star.

Know its a bit jumbled, but to just to give you some hope really. I would say it took 5 months for my little girls tummy to mature. Now she is not a crying baby (unless tired or not having attn paid!!)

Try the colief? And perserve with gaviscon, its very much trial and error (for us anyway)

Hi Bobsi - I went through exactly the same thing with my DD who is now 6mths from when she was about 12 weeks. I also had a demanding 2 yr old too.

Feeding DD was like feeding a stiff plank of wood IYSWIM. But she would feed fine at night too.

A few things helped me.

Get a bag of cheap toys for your 2 yr old and only get them out when you feed LO it will distract them hopefully.Or failing that use Cbeebies!!

I changed bottles from avent to boots own ones which did help. Maybe try different flow teats too.

I fed my DD in the buggy with hood pulled down facing me and that made a BIG difference as she didn't have anything to fight against IYSWIM and all she could see was my face and not be distracted by noise/older kids.

I also changed formula from SMA to cow & gate and that really helped too.

My DD is still not the easiest to feed and I think she actually doesn't like milk much as she is 27 wks and has tasted solids

Good luck and let us know how you get on!!

MabelMay, Bobsi etc,

My first time posting but this is exactly what I've been going through with my four month old - feeding times have been a battle since day 1, and it totally gets you down. Have been looking stuff up constantly to try find a solution. Having read various bits and bobs on mumsnet, I decided my baby girl could have silent reflux. She hasn't been losing weight, just dropping down through the centiles since she was born. Was told by health visitors to take her to the doctors recently because of it, and the doc was just about to refer her to a consultant when I said I felt it could be silent reflux. He decided instead to put her on a course of infant gaviscon for a month and then we'd see what happened. The gaviscon seemed to work for the first 4 or 5 days, and feeding times were fight-free and she started taking plenty. But then it all started again.

While trawling mumsnet forums again I found a topic on feeding difficulties and one mum mentioned that her baby (who from her description could be a carbon copy of mine) could only be fed lying down flat. Though this goes against anything I'd read about reflux babies, I gave it a go three days ago and you would not believe the difference. During the day I feed her in her pram which has a very very slight incline, and for her first and last feeds she's just lying on my bed. She's now taking the proper amount of formula per day (oh - I switched to formula at 6 weeks because breastfeeding her was horrendous too) and she's not in the least bit distressed when I go to feed her. It has made a world of difference.

So, with apologies for my big rambling post, I'd suggest you give it a go. May not work, but if you're like me, I'd have tried anything!

Thanks everyone for the responses, it's good to know others have been through the same. I love the idea about bag of toys that only come out when feeding - will definitely put that into practice.
Ds has been a dream baby until last Monday. He's never taken as much milk as he should but was developing well on 24 - 28 oz a day. But since last week he's fussed massively at one or two feeds a day and subsequently he only gained 2oz in weight last wk. The trouble is he's not crying or upset, he's a normal baby but just crys/fusses when I try and put the bottle in his mouth, he pushes it out like it's hurting him, it can go on for an hour sometimes before I give up - sometimes he'll take it and sometimes he won't. He's constantly shoving his fist in his mouth and has flushed cheeks - could it be teething? He's 12 wks.
Every time I feed him I get sooo stressed and end up in tears which is no good for me, baby or toddler. Took him to Doctors last wk but she was more concerned about me and wants to see me again this week. She's probably going to treat me for PND but I'm only like this when ds isn't feeding. It's so frustrating not knowing what's causing it and whether it'll get any better or not.
I've changed bottle teats and I'm going to try the lying flat thing.

Hi Bobsi

It does get better!!

My DD is still not easy to feed and am having the new problem of trying to get any milk into her at all now. She is small but not worryingly so. But she does like her solids and took to them very well.

Also there were some weeks when she was small that she only put on 2/3 ozs in a week but it did normally coincide with her learning to do something new ie put hand/toes in mouth or rolling over etc. So don't know if that could be the same for you??