Breath holding - is it normal, and is it dangerous?

[catstar]

DD is 10 months and has now been at nursery for about 8 weeks. The girls there have mentioned to me on a several occassions that DD holds her breath sometimes when she cries, and they have to blow in her face to get her to take another breath. She's done this a few times with me (usually when she has her immunisations ). I'm assuming she's doing it for attention as it usually happens around feeding time (when the staff are busy with lots of babies) or, say, when the parents start arriving to collect their children.

As the title says, is it normal, and i suppose more to the point, is it dangerous? What would happen if we didn't blow in her face - would she pass out?

She's generally a very happy baby and seems to love nursery! I'm assuming this is a behavioural thing, rather than a health issue.

Remember reading about it in the Sears baby book. It shouldn't be dangerous.

Here is Dr Greene - a bit more detail than this from Dr Sears:

"My 18-month-old has breath-holding spells. Sometimes when he cries, he can't catch his breath. He turns blue and passes out. Is this dangerous? What can I do to stop it?"

Breath-holding spells are common. They are not harmful, and kids will grow out of them eventually. They often start between 3 and 12 months of age. They can continue for several years.

The typical spell goes as follows - baby starts crying, continues exhaling as he cries, cannot stop the exhaling cry in order to take a breath, starts to turn blue on the lips and face, passes out, finally takes as deep breath and wakes up. He may be groggy for a minute or two afterwards.

This is a normal spell, and does not cause any harm.

You do not need to do anything to stop the spells, because there is nothing you CAN do. Simply hold your baby until the spell passes.

Complicated breath-holding spells occur when a spell lasts so long that it triggers a seizure. These can rarely occur, or may occur with every spell. You should talk with your doctor if your child is having seizures with the spells.

Dr. Bob

I'm sure it's not pretty to watch, but it's not possible to harm oneself by holding her breath. Body pulls the plug on you and goes on breathing by itself.

At 10 months, it doesn't sound like she is doing it on purpose though.

Our friends' little boy used to do this and he has grown out of it. His dad is a GP, and he used to just hold him and quietly and calmly encourage him to breathe again. My dd1 did it once, when she gave herself a terrible fright falling off a climbing frame. Lots of LOs do it, without lasting damage.

thanks for the replies . Looks like there's nothing to worry about, even though it's pretty awful to watch. I read the link you gave, Swampster, and don't think there's any fitting or anything going on but will keep an eye on it - thanks for the link!

Maybe I should encourage the nursery hold her and encourage her to breathe, rather than "shock" her into taking a breath.

Thanks again.

I was just about to post about the very same thing so I'll share my story with you. My lo used to do this in the very early days when I was trying to bf with cellulitis, breast abcesses and a gaping hole in my breast buts thats another story! He has just recently started doing it again as he has just started walking so he does it when he falls over and hurts himself and has always done it when he has had his injections, he has started doing it now when he can't have his own way, not every time but if he's tired and I take something off him that he shouldn't have he'll hold his breath he 's never passed out though. Interestingly, he's only ever done it once for his childminder when another child did something to him, whereas he does it for us probably about every other day! I'm off to read that link now ta swampster!

ds1 used to do it alot and one time had seizure because of it. The blowing on the face always worked best on him and is what the docs advised to do. But the docs never seemed concerned by it

ds used to do this and it was always very scary.

He would go blue and pass out (never for more than a couple of seconds, but it seemed like ages) and then after coming round he would nearly always fall asleep straight away through exhaustion.

He's now nearly 6 and seems to have grown out of it.

dd1 used to do it, even when she was tiny. Someone told me about blowing in her face, and it worked every time. She's 12 now and doesn't do it anymore!!!!!!!!!!

Wow Phoebe - sounds like you had a hard time bf in the early days.

Glad to hear it looks like DD will grow out of it!

My little chap has done this since birth. Nowadays it is usually when he has hurt himself or gets cross when tired. We just calmly say breathe breathe ( not that he takes any notice!) his eyes start to roll them you have to catch him as he will faint and this has lead to sleeping sometimes.
He did it on the path to the house last week after getting out of the car because he was spooked by the wheelie bin! Cue me to drop all bags and run to catch him before he hit the concrete - then unlock the door with 2yr old dead weight in my arms so I could sit on the sofa till he came round - oh what fun!!!???

My little girl has done this the odd time since she was about 3 months old. Always at quite random times, but I think usually when I'm not giving her my full attention. Last week she did it 8 times in one day (again no obvious triggers, she's now 7 months). I took her to the doctor as I could understand if the episodes were 'temper tantrums' but they don't seem to be. I asked for a referral to a specalist just in case (and also because my doc wasn't very reassuring!!). Appointment is on 5 June if you want to get in touch after that and I'll let you know what the paediatrician has to say.

A lot of children do this. My brother used to and there is a little girl at a nursery where I have been working also does this when she gets hurt or is having a tantrum.
We just pick her up and hold her and she usually starts breathing again.

Hi Catstar, I always lurk, but had to respond. I think Dr Greene is generic advice ONLY and it is worth researching further. Nursery staff are used to children's ways, and in mentioning DD's behaviour it might not be usual, hence them bringing it to your attention.

While I appreciate children do hold their breath, there may be another explanation. Taipo I wonder if your DS was experiencing syncope and/or a reflex anoxic seizures.

See: www.stars.org.uk/

GPs will describe Temper Tantrums (kaos73 - your GP is an ignoramus), and others describe babies and small children as holding their breath deliberately. Oh yeah? Try it. Babies are not mini-David Blaines (davidblaine.com/news/?p=53)!!!

Triggers can be emotional stimulii, frustration, shocks and suprises and pain.
Dangers of falling from faints, or the location (top of stairs is a good one, or getting into the swimming pool). SO understanding the triggers is really important. Informing carers/teachers/nursery staff likelwise.
First aid is blowing into mouth (rather than just face), reassurance and reorientation when child comes around, and dealing with bumps and cuts if you don't catch 'em

Best one yet for our DD (now 5; growing out of it slowly) was an ignorant twat clattering her with a trolley in Ikea, just as she bit into a hot dog. Cue syncope and RAS, choking on hotdog, blue child, not independently starting to breath again, heimlich, vomit, mouth-to-mouth, tears and chaos. Slack jawed, knuckle dragging, trolley pusher stares on, not a word of sorry or real concern. FUCKWIT. All delightfully public; all done in 45 seconds, and another education moment for all - and purleeze do not call an amublance (again)! Just get me a new hotdog and some polish for my shoes.

DD is growing out of it, has learned consciously to breath, triggering breathing again and stopping syncope, or she will try to get to us prior to collapse. Episodes are a lot less frequent now as she is more worldly wise, frustrated at the world (as a toddler I am sure that was a lot of it) and perhaps more risk averse too (fewer bumps and scrapes).

As a parent you end up wonderfully blase that your child has crumpled to the floor, blue and apparently not breathing .

Scares the hell out of nursery staff and teachers in the first place. It is a shocking thing to see, but provided there are no consequences to the syncope (faint) and subsequent fall, it soon becomes matter of fact.

Sorry it is long, but lots of experience. I could go on and on. Would recommend the charity, who will arrange a visit to school or nursery if you really need it, They have been terrific.

Thanks SD, your reply has helped me also. I had a look at the Stars site and suddenly things are making sense. Agree - my doctor is a complete eejit and I will not be going back there. (He told me to smack her bum and tell her off if she did it again - imagine, to a 7 month old. Fecker).

WOW! What fantasitc advice from the GP - will result in another syncope episode! If you want PM me, to discuss. I have talked to the Stars guys (phoned them - brilliant) and their newsletter is excellent too.

Certainly the paediatrician we saw was excellent - confirming our diagnosis, good advice about DD's growing up and growing out of these episodes, and explanation of what is going on.

Get another medical opinion, get a referal and get educating those who case for DC.

There is a grim humour too - remember pretending to be a pirranah in an aquarium and her dropping to the floor!

Actually, we can see when she is going to "go". SHe knows it too these days. There is a look, empty in the eyes, almost as she is shutting down. A grunting sigh, and out. Unconscious for perhaps 10 seconds; I fret at 20 (very rare). Not exhuasted afterwards, and now only takes a minute to reorient herself. When once it was 2-3 times a day (when she was two) we are now (at 5) beginning to comment if she has one in a week and why it may be.

Light at the end of the tunnel

at the advice by your GP Kaos73.

Good posts there sdjones. My dd1 also has RAS - the last one she had was two days ago, and that was a surprise as she had been clear for two years. She slept for two hours afterwards, and then was fine. She couldn't remember anything about it. The doctors in the hospital told me it was a 'crying spell' but fortunately I knew a paediatrician who was able to diagnose her correctly.

Very interesting sdjones - thanks for your detailed posts. What an awful thing to have happened in Ikea . I've just been looking at the link to STARS - whilst DD hasn't actually lost consciousness (yet) I think I may try to have a chat with our also useless doctor. Actually, maybe I'll change doctor first.

Kaos73 - would be very interested in how you get on after your specialist appointment so will try to remember to post on here after june 5th .

Well you would think so Catstar, but to be honest, Ikea, it simply becomes one of those things. Stuff you do.

Print the pages off Stars, or call them and get them to send you information tailored for doctors unfamiliar. Ask for a referal NOW to a paediatrician (who may only confirm what is going on and ask for reassurance anyway) at least to get it recorded.

Like Belgo I am sure, we have 100 little stories of when DC has had an episode. I adore DS's reaction - he is 2 and will come an stand sentry until she is back, then insist on hugging her to make everything right in his little world. All part of the routine.

GOOD LUCK with your GP. Enjoy the endless times you bite your lip at "Deliberately holding breath" "Crying episodes" "Being highly strung" and "Temper tantrums". Life is one great opportunity to edcate the ignorant.

Ooh. My fave. We are at the till in B&Q when DS (18 months old) runs towards the exit and car park. Automatic doors open and he is nearly there when DD catches him to bring him back. Picking him up, DS bites DD (another thread), she drops to the floor and he is off. Upon my return, a dozen people at the tills open mouthed that I should drop everything, hurdle unconscious child and disappear to catch DS toddling to car park. Then remonstrate with him and put on "naughty spot", then attend to now semi-conscious daughter. He he - I might have expressed an opinon a little too strong (I think it was Keep your opinion to yourself Gran, don't start!) to Grandma who tutted and past comment as I went back to the till to pay for my paint. Then in under 5 minutes, we all three walked out hand-in-hand, one happy family. All in your stride. Bet Granny didn't forget though!

sdjones - add 'manipulative behaviour' to your list - said about a 10 month old baby!

Mental note to self - read this post again the day before hospital appointment!
SD - will see what happens and may well be in touch - thanx for the offer.
Belgo - think we all need to go out and find new doctors this week.
Cat - good luck at the doc's.

kaos - good luck at the pead's - let us know how you get one.

get on not get one!