Struggling with five year old's behaviour

[RedPandaFluff]

I'm really at the end of my tether with DD right now (reception class). DH and I have been working so hard to support good behaviour and nurture a kind, loving, well-behaved child but after another nightmare walk home from school we've reached a real low point.

DD's teacher did call us into a "first concerns" meeting a couple of weeks ago, as there are indicators of ADHD/ASD. I understand actual diagnosis will be a long journey.

Examples of behaviour that I'm struggling with are as follows:

1. DD has zero road sense. Every single walk to and from school, we've practised looking out for cars before we cross. It doesn't matter that we do this every single day in life - she never remembers and honestly is totally oblivious to traffic and danger. I can't even trust her to walk beside me without holding tightly on to her hand in case she dashes across a road.

2. DD cannot keep track of her belongings and never knows where anything is. Constantly losing things or leaving things behind.

3. If we ask her to do something - put shoes on, brush teeth, anything at all - she never does it the first or second or even the third time we ask - it almost feels like it has to escalate before she'll take any notice of us and actually do it.

4. Attitude/temper - DD is always on an emotional rollercoaster. Highs and lows. Temper flare-ups where she'll snap and shout at us.

5. Constantly wants to collect things and be in control of resources, whether it's floats at the swimming pool, toys, snacks - DD wants to be in charge and give them out. I don't think she plays nicely with other children, from what I can see.

We've tried everything - reward charts, stickers, natural consequences, punishments, removing toys/screentime/treats etc., explaining everything over and over so she understands . . . nothing works and the issues are still there, and getting worse if anything.

Does this resonate with anyone? It really feels like every other child is polite and well-behaved and we've massively failed DD in some way.

DD's teacher did call us into a "first concerns" meeting a couple of weeks ago, as there are indicators of ADHD/ASD. I understand actual diagnosis will be a long journey.

Does that mean that they've made the referrals yet? It is a long process but it's even longer if she actually isn't on the waiting list yet

DD has zero road sense. This is very typical of a ND child. She's not doing anything wrong. You just need to keep her safe by holding her hand and gently going through what she needs to look out for.

DD cannot keep track of her belongings and never knows where anything is. Constantly losing things or leaving things behind. Again this is fairly typical. If she does have ADHD she won't think of things she can't see. You need to help her not leave things behind. Make a list with pictures as well. Yo do on her bag as a reminder and think of shelving it units on her room where things are tidy but visible.

If we ask her to do something - put shoes on, brush teeth, anything at all - she never does it the first or second or even the third time we ask - it almost feels like it has to escalate before she'll take any notice of us and actually do it.

Try making it a race. She will get zero dopamine from carrying out a task like putting on her shoes but time her and give her a fun challenge to see if she can do it in less than say 5 minutes and make a huge fuss if she manages it.

Attitude/temper - DD is always on an emotional rollercoaster. Highs and lows. Temper flare-ups where she'll snap and shout at us.

The Explosive Childd* is a great book to help you deal with this.

Constantly wants to collect things and be in control of resources, whether it's floats at the swimming pool, toys, snacks - DD wants to be in charge and give them out. I don't think she plays nicely with other children, from what I can see.

Not sure on that one sorry. Hopefully someone will be along soon who can help you with that

We've tried everything - reward charts, stickers, natural consequences, punishments, removing toys/screentime/treats etc., explaining everything over and over so she understands . . . nothing works and the issues are still there, and getting worse if anything

All of these are great techniques to use if your DC are NT but if they are ND they simply don't work. The book I linked to earlier should help with behaviour.

Does this resonate with anyone? It really feels like every other child is polite and well-behaved and we've massively failed DD in some way

Yes and it can be hard. You're probably adjusting right now to the DD you have and that parenting is going to be different to what you expected.

Have a look at the SN Children Section. You can ask on there about getting an ECHP. She doesn't need a diagnosis to get one and they can give you information on how to obtain one and what it should include

Sounds like a 5 year old to me. In Denmark we don't start school until 6. I would suggest to parents in your situation that you keep her out of school an extra year for her maturity to develop a little. but I don't know if that a possibility where you are.

Sorry @BeSnappyOtter but I disagree, especially given things like the lack of road sense and never being able to play nicely. Maybe at age 2 or 3, but not by 5.

The having to tell them several times to do something, now that does sound the norm!

I'd be exploring the ND possibility and think the first reply as some great suggestions on how to help your DD.

Sorry @BeSnappyOtter but I disagree, especially given things like the lack of road sense and never being able to play nicely. Maybe at age 2 or 3, but not by 5

I agree with you. A lot of it is behaviour you woukd expect her to have grown out of by now.

@TinyMouseTheatre thank you so much for the great advice, I really appreciate your taking the time to do that. We'll give your suggestions a try, for sure, and I'm about to buy the book you've mentioned. It is really hard, principally because I'm often so worried about safety (DD seems to have no sense of danger at all) but also because it makes me sad to think that she will struggle with certain things. In so many ways she's a bright, funny, loving little girl.

@BeSnappyOtter I definitely hoped that DD would have grown out of some of these behaviours by now, but as time passed and I observed other children, I realised that there must be more to this than immaturity. Honestly, I wish it were just a case of her still being young, or even just bad parenting on our part, so we can fix it! As @FutureFry says, she must be old enough by now to at least understand how to safely cross a road, and not to be totally oblivious to cars.

Thanks again for replies

@RedPandaFluff Hi, my son is 5 and was diagnosed Autistic in April. He also likes to collect and gather things. It has lessened as he has gotten older but he lives to have all of anything - all the apples, all the bagels etc He used to carry these things around but less so now.
He is also very unaware of danger and impulsive so I wouldn't trust him on a path near a road.

@Crystalball84 so similar! DD has zero impulse control too - I can actually see her wrestling with it, mentally, before she gives in to it. For example, walking home from school, she'd pause by a puddle, and I'd say "walk AROUND the puddle please, you've no wellies on!" - and I can see her struggling to not jump in. There's an actual battle going on inside her head but she can't win, and jumps in the puddle, recognising immediately that she's in trouble now and she's upset.

It's so sad in a way. She doesn't WANT to be "naughty" (we don't call her that, by the way) but her impulsiveness wins.

@RedPandaFluff yes, same here with puddles or touching stuff that he is not meant to. This has also improved with his understanding. I can now say if you jump in the puddle we will have to go home and that works most of the time. You can take that chance with a puddle but not when it comes to traffic. I'm hoping as his understanding improves, his impulses will improve too.

Hi again @RedPandaFluff. Just been catching up with your thread. I think that not recognising danger is one of the questions in the 5 year Social & Emotional Ages & Stages so it might be worth doing that.

I don't know if getting an assessment through Caudwell Children woukd be of any use? Personally I'd push for the referral from school and apply for the ECHP I think

Exactly, @Crystalball84 - leaping into a puddle I can handle; running in front of a car just does not bear thinking about.

Thanks so much, @TinyMouseTheatre - I'll have a look at those resources with DH. I also think I might be able to get a private referral through my work health insurance (DD is covered) so I'm going to look into that too. I really want to put some proper strategies in place as we've been fumbling our way through this so far.

Oh - I meant to ask, @Crystalball84 - how do you feel about asking grandparents etc. to look after your child? I feel so uncomfortable on the rare occasion we ask MIL if she can look after DD for us - not due to any fault of MIL's at all, but moreso because I'm not sure MIL realises how impulsive and risk-oblivious DD is. DD just can't be trusted in relation to common sense in the same way other five-year-olds can, and I actually think MIL believes I'm an over-protective mother as she hasn't witnessed most of DD's danger-oblivion.

@RedPandaFluff my own MIL wouldn't be able to mind him, she's not very mobile. My mother will mind him in her own house but doesn't bring him out anywhere. She has an outside area that is fenced off so it's safe. I have never let anyone take him anywhere as I couldn't relax thinking of him with anyone else. I watch him like a hawk whenever I go anywhere and I try to avoid going anywhere that's very stressful.

Sorry to answer a question aimed at another MNer but my MIL totally got the situation and looking back was quite brilliant. I think both DH and DSIL are ND so was well used to quirks.

My DF was also great. My "D"M big so much. She thinks she is always right and goes against advice to prove a point. I wouldn't leave her with a goldfish unsupervised.

. . . and this is exactly why life can be so exhausting, eh?

Hi do you mind if I ask how your DD is getting along now?

Hi @Wildflowers99 we have our follow-up meeting with the school next week, so that will give us a clearer understanding of where they think she is now. Based on what we experience with her outside school, I think her behaviour is slightly better. For example, she's a bit better at following instructions (brush your teeth, put your shoes on etc.) and the "explosiveness" has calmed down a little. Also the look-for-cars-when-crossing-the-road is sinking in a little, but isn't consistent. So, overall, I feel that things are a little better. Perhaps that's coming with maturity. One thing that has got a little worse is the ingrained "selfishness" (for want of a better word) - she's obsessed with having the biggest portion of whatever snack or treat is being shared. I find this difficult and I'm hoping it will ease off as her empathy and sense of fairness develops!

Thanks, hope the meeting goes well. I was asking as DD is the same with roads - it’s like years of ‘stop, look, listen’ haven’t sunk in. I was wondering if this is something they grow out of - hopefully for our sake!