Help! My son has taken to hurling verbal abuse at me. Any advice?

[nellyraggbagg]

My DS is six next week and has always been quite hard work. He was a very tantrummy toddler, and now he is still inclined to turn any emotion (fear, frustration, insecurity etc) into anger. Normally (is this normal?!), he goes lumimous red and kicks and screams if things don't go his way (or if he's scared by something). Over the last few days, though, he's started screaming at me "You stupid mother!!!!!" when I've stopped him from (eg) hitting DD (nearly 4) over the head with something, or have asked him to pick up the clothes he threw around his bedroom.

I know that "you stupid mother" really doesn't figure highly on the list of insults (it's presumably the worst insult he can think of at the moment, thank goodness), but I really do object to what I see as verbal abuse. I have tried ignoring it altogether and withdrawing all attention (which has made no difference) - but I suppose I feel I have to stop it somehow before he gets older and learns worse insults!

Or will he have grown out of it by the time he hears worse words?!

I don't feel that putting him in a "naughty" corner would achieve anything, as that just seems to make him feel like the injured party, plus I don't want him to get the idea that it's "naughty" to be angry. I've withdrawn his 10-minute computer time as a specific punishment for rudeness, but I'm at a loss. Does anyone else have experience of this kind of thing?

If it gives anyone any clues, DS didn't start school until the last term of Reception, since when he has been a model pupil (bearing certificates for being kind and helpful and so on!) However, he has struggled with the social side of things (he did a few mornings at nursery school before starting school, but tended to talk to the staff), and still prefers the company of adults to children (though is getting better with other children as a result of school). His teacher says he is extraordinarily bright (not as much fun as it sounds, believe me), and is giving him plenty to do, so he can't be bored at school. We don't do any extra-curricular activities, so he can't feel over-taxed out of school. I take him for long walks to burn off boyish energy, but it seems not to work! He is horrendously jealous of DD, and has been since the day she was born (to add insult to injury, she's as good as gold - at the moment!!) DH and I are both at home full-time, so he was rather spoilt with adult attention. There tend to be fewer outbursts if I have just him on his own, so I think jealousy is a really big anger-trigger (again, I don't want to make him feel that he's being punished for feeling jealous!)

I am feeling a bit desperate today, and would dearly love advice!

My DH still hasn't mastered the art of calming himself down and all stress / anger / frustration ends up with verbal abuse....so anything you can do will save a future partner from a lot of anxst!

Perhaps a big beanbag to chill out on?

Cory - that is what I am hoping will happen!

Where he has got the shouting thing from is a mystery to me. I have shouted at him (and DD jointly) once in six years! I am very calm, and treat both DCs politely and with respect. DH is more easily riled, and has shouted at both of them, but never in a really aggressive, angry way. I'm undoubtedly doing heaps of things wrong (I do of course think this is all my fault somehow), but I certainly don't model aggressive, shouty behaviour.

I think I might give the quiet place a go... it's certainly worth a try!

Yeah, I'd smack him, but then thats not very pc anymore is it, but, sometimes you need to be responsive immediately,and conversations will be lost on him, he will just hear blah blah.

I can see from the thread that this obviously isnt your position, but I have to say that I have seen many mothers being bullied by their young children, and I think that the look, the voice and if necessary a smacked hand or bum, will not do any harm.

That is so true about them just hearing "blah, blah, blah" at times.

DD (7) has a terrible temper and will tell me that she hates me and I'm stupid, etc. I have tried sitting down with her and explaining how hurtful it is and she just looks at me and says "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah" all the time while I'm talking.

I have tried naughty step, going to room, loss of TV, loss of toys. In the long term nothing has worked and she's been like this for a year now. When she's been nice she is lovely, all kisses and hugs. But she has a very short fuse and is horrible when she flys off the handle.

I'm at my wits end and just tend to ignore it now. Which I know isn't the solution, but talking doesn't work and descends into an arguement. I'm very close to smacking her at times.

I wouldn't argue when she is in a temper-ignore her completely and don't engage in any sort of dialogue until she is calm. Give her lots of attention when she is good and discuss her behaviour at that point. You can't talk to someone who is going 'blah,blah ,blah' which is very rude.

Totally sympathise with low tolerance to rudeness. My ds (5) really lets me have it when he's tired and in a bad mood. I am frequently called "stupid moo head". (I know, I know, it IS funny but...) He often says "You're not the boss aroud here, daddy is. When he can't get want he wants (usually connected with television or sweets!!!) he will hit me quite hard, and he also says he wants to live with another family and that this is really awful that I hate him and I'm going to kill him. He says this even if I have dealt with the bad behaviour in a saintly way, with a calm time out etc...so it's not as if we are engaged in a blazing row. This last bit about killing is so weird and unsettling, that I then give him a huge cuddle, and tell him that I Ilove him more than anything in the world even if I don't always like how he behaves. But the hating and the killing words are really horrible to hear. Our home is calm(ish) and generally happy. Nothing traumatic has happened to him. He has lots of friends, his dad and I dote on him. I just wish i could find a way of dealing with the anger he has. And I wish I could deal with my own too, and be more patient, but it's hard when you're being slapped and called names!!Good luck everyone.

I say to DD "you don't hate me, you hate what I am saying to you". And "no one gets everything they want all the time". With shouting/swearing/hitting I use "mummy and daddy don't do this, this is not the way we deal with things that upset us" and then try to talk it through. ("Simmer down chairs" come into play sometimes here).

Leximum: the "killing" bit is worrying, it sounds like he has picked it up from another child at school. I heard my landlady's grandson say "I hate you and wish you were dead" to her...because it was obviously what his mother said to him...so I think your son is repeating a friend's comment.
Ask him why he thinks you would want to kill him...get him to turn his angry thoughts over and consider them.
I also say to DD "no one can think or be happy if they are shouting. Lets stop shouting. Lets see why we got so sad and angry". Now DD will say things like "X did this today and I think that was wrong" and ask me what I think and what she should do. She did go through the classic phase of playing one parent off against another. DH and I had a pact that we always agreed with each other publicly...even if in private we discussed it and altered our thoughts later.

Leximum - I know what you mean about the hating and killing thing. DS hasn't yet introduced hating me into his repertoire, but it's just a matter of time. He's quite hot on wishing to kill people, though. I think they play a lot of killing games in the playground at school, as killing has entered our lives since he started school. I console myself on that front with the thought that he really doesn't know what killing someone means. He talks quite a lot about death, but he can't possibly understand it in any kind of meaningful way (thank goodness). I think they often repeat things that classmates with older siblings come out with...

We don't do stupid moo-heads, but we do do stupid poo-poo heads and smelly-bottoms (and we pay fees for this!!!) Though that one is nearly always aimed at DD, who thinks it's so hilarious that she tries to repeat it to anyone who speaks to her. Oh, the joys!

Hi

Some of what you've said about your ds reminds me of my 10yr old ds. particularly the sheer fustration when things go wrong and having difficulty in finding appropriate emotional responses. You also talk about difficulty in socialising with peers, dislike of team sports etc etc.
But, with lots of positive attributes knowing exactly what he wants to be (ds has his heart set on being a writer for example)being kind and helpful.
My Ds has a diagnosis of Aspergers and at least 2 friends children with similar character traits are being assessed for dyspraxia (there seems to be a lot of cross over between the two dxs).
I don't want to come across as alarmist or even make assumptions regarding your son but, perhaps considering these possibilities you can adopt some of the behaviour management techniques that have been shown to work.
I suppose what I am really trying to say is don't assume that he is deliberately being rude or hurtful, he may not be able to gauage(sp!) this accurately.

Miggsie, you sound like a much bettr mother than me!!! I'm not patient so perhaps I'm expecting too much of him, my strong area as a mum is playing with him and making him laugh and being the entertainer, which comes naturally to me (as it did to my own wonderful, infuriating, impatient, hilarious mum) but when it comes to calm dealing with naughtiness, I seem to be getting worse by the month. I think partly, it's that he was such an angel all through baby and toddlerhood (all happiness, and affection, and totally in love with the woman he now sees as old "moo head") , it sometimnes seems like a different child!!! I simply must stay calm and remember that he is only 5. I will try the "simmer down chair" (for myself first!!!) and I like the line "no-one can be happy while they are shouting". Thanks for that.

nellyraggbagg; yes, I think maybe the killing business has come from the playground. The boys in his school are always pretending to shoot each other and one or the other of his friends is always in trouble for brutality while "play-fighting" (and this is at a private pre-prep). At times TBH, I can barely believe the bad manners and bad behaviour I see on playdates and at birthday parties. And these are the kids of the educated professional classes!
Take care.

Jellybrain - it's interesting that you mention Asperger's, as we've wondered about that one ever since DS was under two. He used to be obsessed with oscillating fans, and we would have to go round our neighbourhood looking at them all. He knew where they all were, and missing one out would provoke a hideous tantrum!!

I do think he sometimes has no idea that his behaviour affects other people. He is many delightful things, but he doesn't do empathy at all. He just can't seem to put himself in anyone else's shoes, even for a second. The weird thing is that he's very empathetic where animals are concerned. He just can't seem to understand people - he also interprets gentle correction as people being angry with him, so maybe I need to work on the empathy thing!

His obsessions moved on to Dysons, church architecture, and (currently) pipe organs, cathedrals and the textile industry.

Leximum - yes, we're private pre-prep, too, and I've been horrified by some of the behaviour I've witnessed by some of the children out of school. The rudeness of some children to their parents is shocking (and, I have to say, I've been shocked by some of the parents as well). The school has a very clear and quite strict behaviour policy, but some of the children certainly don't take that out of school!