Constant shoving and poking of baby brother by DS1 (4) - it's been months now and I've tried everything!!

[theosmummy]

Sorry this is so long but i have a cracking headache and Mumsnet seems my only solution...
My DS, now age 4, was a lovely, calm, angelic little boy until his little brother was born 1 year ago... Practically from the day he was born, he has been v jealous of our attention. It started with peeing episodes (anywhere but the loo!), throwing things at me while Bfeeding etc... Since DS2 started crawling a few months ago, DS1 is constantly shoving, poking, sitting on him. We also have a weird chanting noise that always goes with it while he pokes about DS2's face. Today it culminated in DS2 being pushed, falling onto to doorframe and cutting his lip.
DS1 has also started screaming his head off whenever DS2 starts crying.
I've tried dealing with it calmly, explaining that babies aren't v clever at standing up, crawling etc and that we all need to be gentle, tried sending him to his bedroom until he's thought about it and he's ready to play nicely, but he's getting so aggressive and i'm getting so fed up with the constant tormenting (especially when I'm around - they seem to ignore each other when i'm out of the room) that i'm afraid i'm going to end up giving him a smack... Help!
PS - DS1 also hit me so hard in the face that my glasses went flying today. Starting to have nightmares wondering what he'll be like at 13!!!

Crikey. Ok, first off, does he have any sn?

Sorry I'm new-ish. What's SN?

LOL sorry just read what SN is - no, no special needs!

Sorry - didn't mean it in a bad way...

We have the same problem with DS1 who is 3.5 and DS2 who is 11 months. It's gradually improving I would say especially as it began with biting and tantrums when I was BFing. These days it's shoving and pushing etc
I find it helps to lavish attention on DS1 where possible. And to spend time with him alone at the weekends. Baby goes to the creche sometimes so i can take big brother swimming. That sort of thing.
Also, i've found a few games that they can play together so that he can see that having a brother can be fun too.
I think it helps to make sure the older one doesn't feel that he's always the naughty one while baby is some sort of angel.
We do the naughty step thing and i used to put baby in his chair at the bottom of the step for a few moments for silly things. Baby didn't care and his brother thought it was brilliant.

It's really hard and i've come to accept that there might always be an element of sibling rivalry. I'm trying to manage it by making sure the attention is shared.

You're absolutely right. I feel so bad for him that he seems to be the naughty one all the time (although I do tell him I love him a lot), and the baby naughty step is a brilliant idea!
Note to self: must make more 1:1 time with DS1.
Can i ask you what kind of games you find to play all together?
thank you so much Dragonbutter - it's great to hear such good advice - all my other friends's firstborns seem to adore their little siblings! Feel like it's all my fault for not preparing him well enough.
xx

He sounds like he's doing it to get a reaction from you - any attention is good attention!

Make sure you spend 1:1 time with him, have special time where you get the baby out of the way so it's just you two.

He's trying to make sure he's got your attention, so actively withdrawing your attention and playing with the other child every time he does any of these things might act as, well, sort of aversion therapy, iyswim.

Always a good trick to try is to make his behaviour the reason the other child gets attention. So every time he does any of this stuff, take the baby and make a big fuss of the baby while not paying any attention to him. Hopefully, he'll learn that his behaviour has painful consequences for him and actually leads to that which he fears most - your attention on the interloper

You could also try getting him to think through with you a story of 2 brothers - write it, draw it, whatever - guide him through it to the outcome you want. try to get him to think how it feels to be on the other side.

Make sure they both get individual attention, make sure no blood is spilled, take a deep breath and think "This too will pass." In another few years, ds2 will be giving as good as he gets and they'll be the best of friends one minute and kicking seven shades of shite out of each other the next.

Yes all my friends older ones are so gentle and loving with their baby brothers/sisters. But no, not mine.
We have a game inspired by the film Ice Age where DS1 crawls from one end of the living room to the other pretending to be a migrating mammoth , DS2 joins is following him not quite getting it but following anyway. (On a good day DH and I join in too).
I posted a thread a while ago asking for these sort of ideas. Somebody came up with 'detective baby' where the older ones hide and they baby has the follow them and find them.
Peek a boo is always pretty good.
DS1 has discovered all sorts of noises that make his brother laugh or falling over so you could encourage that.
If i think of some others i'll post them.

My son was 2 years and 4 months when my daughter was born. I expected, and was prepared for, some initial jealousy, however, the jealousy lasted just over a year. We had jumping on me whilst b-feeding, weeing on sisters toys, hitting, pushing etc etc. I had may days when I simply despaired and wondered why he wasn't like other children who seemingly adored their younger siblings.
The positive note to this is that at just over a year when my son could finally see that his sister was becoming a 'real person' the jealousy began to fade and was replaced by an interest in her. This slowly grew and developed into a real love for her. Now at ages 4 and 19 months they could not be closer, they dote on each other and miss each other when apart.
So there is hope, it may just take time! Good luck!

Well all your messages at least gave me the will to start the morning with my happy face on - Dragonbutter, I turned your crawling mammoth into Burt and Mary Poppins dancing on the rooftops and decided to start giving him stars for being so good (carrot as opposed to stick).

Have also decided to ask MIL to look after baby while DS1 and I go swimming together. I'm so full of good resolutions now - I can see light at the end of the tunnel, thx so much Miggins!

Hecate - the 2 brothers story is a great idea. Last week he drew a pictures of the 4 of us with Mummy, Daddy, a baby and a squiggle. When asked what the squiggle was he said, ME - i could have cried for the poor little lamb.

Aw, bless him. It's really hard for little ones to learn to share their beloved mum and dad. But he will. And it will all be ok. I promise you.

It's great that they can communicate at this age how they feel but it's hard to hear. DS1 has told me quite plainly and in a calm way that he really doesn't want a brother and could i take him away.

For a while i noticed he didn't want me to help him build his wooden train track which used to be a real winner. I asked him why he didn't play with it so much and he said that DS2 always breaks it. So now we have a table in the living room for his toys that his brother can't reach where he can have a train track or marble run.

It seems to help to acknowledge how much better it is to be big and not a baby anymore.
"Babies can't skateboard can they?"
"Babies can't go very high on the swing"
That sort of thing