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Original poster

Does the fact that my dd cannot sound out words phonetically mean that she has a problem with reading that needs further investigation?

44 replies

FYIAD · 15/04/2008 12:21

dd1 (8) has always had problems with reading which I have posted on before.

I have told the school since reception that she cannot sound out words - they didnt seem to take much interest, told me thta she would get there eventually etc etc.

Yesterday she got this comment from the TA in her reading record "dd1 guesses words and sometimes makes them up!!"

I spoek to them this mornign and said, yes, the reason that she does this is because she cannot sound them out phonetically - even if I go through the word (usually a name or a difficult word that she wont have seen before) she won't remember it for next time and doesnt seem to be able to repeat the sounding out. They were suddenly very concerned and said what a shame it was that I hadnt mentioned this earlier in her schoool career as now she was 8 it was too late to do anything about it .

I dont think she is dyslexic as she learns her spelling list very quickly and well.

OP posts:
PrimulaVeris · 15/04/2008 12:32

Good grief I should think you are angry.

My ds had phonetic and reading difficulties, but at a younger age. My gut feeling is that 8 is quite late. We did get referred to a SALT but warning - it takes MONTHS to get an appointment and I think you'll need to be seen sooner rather than later.

It may be worth getting her seen privately but I'm afraid I don't have experience of that. Good luck.

Twiglett · 15/04/2008 12:34

some children don't learn phonetically .. it really isn't the catch-all that the govt make out it is

some children need to learn to read by actually learning lists

it is an equally valid method

sitdownpleasegeorge · 15/04/2008 12:36

TOO LATE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT !

That's bollox

It's never to late to learn to read properly.

I would refer them to that Channel 4 TV programme (which I would be amazed if they haven't viewed and discussed ad nauseam in the staffroom) where a whole school split its kids up into reading ability groups and went back to basics (Ruth Miskin's Phonics scheme) with non-reading older kids learning alongside 4 and a half year olds if necessary.

I would suggest that they mean they do not have or are not prepared to provide any resources (aka funds) to put your dd through a remedial reading course to help her with phonics.

I would make a huge fuss over this personally, especially as you have been telling them this fact about your daughter since reception, land the ball firmly back in their court and copy the governers in on a further letter if the head and her current class teacher are not prepared to help her with something as fundamental as reading.

marina · 15/04/2008 12:38

I think you do need to have some further investigations done FYIAD. I quite agree with your view that they should have done this for dd1 much sooner and I would take that up with the school also.
I am no expert but I would say that I am sure it is not too late for her to get some targeted help on this particular issue. Despite lots of support at school and home a child I know only got a detailed dx pinpointing some specific language processing issues, when he was eight. It wasn't too late for him and I am sure it will not be for your dd1 either.
Good luck - and keep us posted. Dd is also not mad keen on sounding out words, so your OP has made me think we ought to get this "on the table" now in Reception, just in case.

marina · 15/04/2008 12:40

I agree it's a valid approach Twig and one that dh, I and seemingly ds, have all coped with fine, but FYIAD has pointed out that her dd is not retaining the words in some cases, so she is not on top of Whole Word Recognition, surely...?

sitdownpleasegeorge · 15/04/2008 12:42

I agree that not all children learn phonetically. Ds1 is a prime example, he only has to see and hear a word for him to remember it about 90% of the time. He whizzed through the frequent and tricky word lists barely using any phonics, just recalling them by sight after we had covered them all in small groups of about 5 words a week.

He does however fall back on his phonics training when he comes across a new unfamiliar word, breaking it down into sounds and saying them out loud then doing it again saying them quickly to try and "decode" the whole word by hearing the sound of all the phenomes together.

batters · 15/04/2008 12:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

singersgirl · 15/04/2008 12:46

Learning lists of words isn't sufficient to become a really fluent reader, because there are always going to be words that you haven't come across before. Even at 41, and as a keen reader, I come across new words occasionally, and I need to work them out. Of course I know so many 'parts of words' that it's very quick for me usually.

I think most people who learn by whole words manage to intuit the rules of reading, so that, having learned, say, 'information', they can then work out 'innovation' and 'reformation'. It sounds as if Enid's DD1 isn't able to do this particularly well.

It really isn't too late and if I were you I would be furious with the school too. Ruth Miskin has a 'catch up' phonics programme specifically for older children (ie not 4 or 5 year olds), but I don't know much about it.

Original poster
FYIAD · 15/04/2008 12:46

I suppose I 'compare' her with dd2 who sounds out words that she doesn't know so is reading very fluently

if she comes across a word that she doesnt know she does this 'in-ter-est-ing - interesting!'

dd1 does not do this

she would do

'instersting (me: 'nearly nearly')...instructing (me: 'no..') ..interested...instresstingly..('me (wearily) 'interesting' - her (indignant) 'yes thats what I said!') and on and on

OP posts:
Twiglett · 15/04/2008 12:47

but she said that she learns her spelling list very quickly and well

I think possibly her confusion might lie in the fact that she can do the elements that are whole word, but school keep trying to get her to do the rest phonically which would confuse any child and possibly make her unconfident

I'd try to establish whether the school believes that phonics is the only way to go or if they could be adaptable

Original poster
FYIAD · 15/04/2008 12:48

no twig they dont do phonics past year one/reception

I believe they think it is bolleaux tbh

they just hear her read every day

OP posts:
popsycal · 15/04/2008 12:55

ENid - the more you say about your dd1, the more I am reminded of a girl I used to teach years ago. Bright girl, sociable, articulate but in 'free' writing would make very odd spelling mistakes and no amount of phonics would improve her 'sounding out' of words.

Have you heard of aural dyslexia? More about problems in hearing the sounds that that letters make. The girl i am reminded of could learn spellings no problem - but could not, for example, generalise that if she knew how to spell the word 'right' then 'night' would follow the same pattern.

How is she with rhyming words?

popsycal · 15/04/2008 12:56

She is also having problems deciphering medial sounds....

Twiglett · 15/04/2008 12:57

is fyiad enid? if so, why?

Original poster
FYIAD · 15/04/2008 12:58

erm I don't know abuot rhyming words

I think ok as we sometimes make up silly songs in the car and she comes up with ideas

OP posts:
Original poster
FYIAD · 15/04/2008 12:59

sorry twig, it is me Enid

I changed my name to FYIAD because I found it a very amusing nerdy acronym (it measns F*ck You, I'm a Dragon )

OP posts:
popsycal · 15/04/2008 13:00

In aural dyslexia, on the contrary, the child recognizes a different form of writing for every letter, but he is not able to combine the phonemes to the respective sounds.

misdee · 15/04/2008 13:01

enid, she sounds very similar to dd1. except dd1 passes her spelling tests then doesnt put those words into use in her written work. [sighs]

Original poster
FYIAD · 15/04/2008 13:01

is it possible to just telephone someone, somewhere and say 'look my dd has some problems, I may be being stupid and overprotective, but please can you test her and tell me whether she does or not PLEASE so I can at least MOVE ON WITH MY LIFE'

hmm

OP posts:
popsycal · 15/04/2008 13:03

The usual route is through school but you may have to push and push

misdee · 15/04/2008 13:05

FYIAD, i'm thinking of private assessment for dd1 as i also dont think she is progressing as she should.

i know a lady at our school her ds was assessed at the dore programme, but that was for different reasons. i think dd1 may be dyslexic.

popsycal · 15/04/2008 13:07

Get them to write something freely and not worry about spellings.....

Email it to me.

Also there is an online reading age test which is free to do. It is only decoding words - not understanding them - but it will give you a ball park figure. I did it on ds1 (for a totally different reason)....

popsycal · 15/04/2008 13:08

dyslexia institute 'clinics'

Some parents at our school have used them

Original poster
FYIAD · 15/04/2008 13:09

ok popsy will do, I will cat you when it is done

thanks so much

do you have a link to the reading age thing

OP posts:
popsycal · 15/04/2008 13:12

let me find it...

It isn't without flaws, mind. As I said it is only decoding but is a good starting point