Was I starving my baby?

[MrsVorkosigan]

Hi all,

This is my first message though I've been lurking on Mumsnet for a while and have been impressed by the knowledge and helpfulness of everyone here. So I wanted your advice/thoughts on something strange concerning my daughter (first and only child so far so not a very experienced mum!).

She is now 15 weeks old. She has generally been a very easy baby, is awake loads during the day but sleeps well at night, no colic, doesn't cry much except when tired etc. She is exclusively breastfed. She was born 3.4kg (7lb 9oz) and was putting weight on at a good rate staying on the same curve. For the 1st two months she was also quite happy to spend some time happily by herself (e.g while I was showering, doing housework etc).

I was feeding her every 3-4 hrs during the day and she would drink for around 10-15 mins (max 20) and stop. I would give her just one breast at each feed.

When she was 9wks we went to visit my in laws. When we got back she got more difficult in that she didn't like being left by herself anymore, she would cry when I left the room and go quiet again when I got back and played with her. She would then be quite smiley and seemed happy (until I left the room again). When out and about or distracted she was quite happy with a couple of sessions of crying in the pram. I put it down to the fact that she was showered with attention by her grandparents and was being constantly played with/held.

But then she started not putting weight on as quickly, still putting on a bit but dropping off the curve. The HV wasn't concerned just told me to go back in two weeks. We then went on holiday and on our first day back she was a complete nightmare. A lot of crying, didn't want to be left alone etc. Again I put it down to the flight, disruption, constant attention etc. She improved a bit in the next couple of days. At the next weighing that week, the same, she had only put on a little bit of weight and had dropped further off the curve. The HV asked me about her feeding, my diet etc and just said to go back in two weeks. She said that if the pattern continued it would be worth me introducing a formula feed so that we can monitor a bit better her intake. At first I dismissed it as I read that the charts are not based on BF babies and their growth can be different. But it was nagging me so I decided to try and feed her more often, offer her both breasts, encourage her to feed for longer even if she stops after the usual 10 minutes. Within a day of the new routine, she was a completely different baby. She is now much happier, can be left by herself again, never cries except before falling asleep (which she's always done). We haven't been for weighing yet, will go next week as I want my milk supply to catch up and the routine some time to take effect.

Not sure what the question is...was I starving my baby without realising? And could it be that she was happy in my company or when we were out even when hungry and only 'remembered' her hunger when alone? Or was is all a coincidence and the disruption from the trips caused the crying and need for attention but has now worn off after some time at home.
What has your experience of the growth charts been (especially if you are exclusively breastfeeding)?
Can teething start and stop again (no teeth are showing yet). Has anyone else had a similar experience?

I feel terrible that I might have been starving her without realising, when very little she didn't cry for food, she used to make sucking noises and move her tongue up towards her palate so I knew but has stopped doing that so I'm not sure what the signals are now.

Sorry this is long. Just wanted to explain all the circumstances.

it sounds like she had a few growth spurts, but someone cleverer will be along in a bit

Placid babies may not be as demanding as they should be and so your milk supply may have dropped for a while - esp with all the gadding about! Lots of people find their BM supply dips whne they are out of their own comfortable home - feeding can be less relaxing and so supply can dip.

You have very sensibly taken steps to increase your milk supply and keep at this and it'll work.

The charts are a rough guide not a scientific experiment - so plunging off the chart may be a worry but not really slowly drifting off.

The HV at the clinic should have given you some advice on increasing your breast milk supply rather than suggesting formula out of the blue (unless you asked whether you could give some formula - and i doubt it form your post!).

So - no - you weren't starving her.

Go back amd get her weighed in a month - 2 weeks is too soon!

Thanks for the quick replies and reassurance!

Gagarin, the HV did talk about drinking loads of water and that I should eat well. I didn't ask about formula, I'm keen to continue bf'ing, if possible. Not sure she gave any other advice.

Check positioning - sometimes babies get lazy after a few weeks and start nipple sucking...

Plus feed both sides; put your feet up for a while and offer the breast 2 hourly during the day (the day being 6am-10pm approx!).

Basically do nothing but feed for a week - which is what you've done - good choice..

No,you did fine and you sound like you had a sensible HV.

Don't worry about it.

i seriusly once did forget to feed my baby. Couldn't work out why she was thrashing about and crying-hadn't breastfed her for yonks.

Mortified!

My baby (now 4 months) fed a lot more than that, but then my friend's fed less, like yours. Sorry that's not much use, but I guess I'm saying every baby feeds differently. It sounds like you're a very responsive mum, to pick up on this as a potential issue for your little one and be determined to try all you can top help her feed without resorting to formula. Good for you! 'Starving' your baby sounds like neglect, which you definatly havn't been from your posts. It sounds more like you and her are just learning to communicate with each other better.

Don't worry too much about the charts. It's a common misconception that they are based on formula fed babies. They're not!

They are based on babies whose feeding was not differentiated, so some exbf, exff and some mixed. There are now charts available based on exclusively breastfed babies but they're not, afaik, in routine use yet.

UNICEF or WHO website (can't remember which one) has the charts to download. The main difference is that they slope up much more quickly in the first few weeks then weight gain slows down to a more similar line to the old charts. I don't know when the weight gain starts to slow though. It may be worth printing one out and seeing if her pattern is any different.

I agree about leaving her for a month before you take her be weighed. It sounds like you are doing the right thing in offering both sides and encouraging her to feed more often. If she is a very laid back baby then she may need a bit of a prompting to feed as often as she needs.

All the things you mention are probable reasons why she's had a fussy few weeks. Add a couple of growth spurts and you've got your answer! I very much doubt you were starving her, but you're making sure she's having her fill now. That's what matters.

I think your current plan is a good one. Feeding more often and form both sides seems to be working for you. She will have been through some growth spurts in 15 weeks which will have effected her feeding and needs.

Also her ways of telling you what she needs will change fairly frequently at this young age. So keeping a eye out for grumpiness, clinginess etc is a good habit for when to offer a feed. As for feeding over ten mins, I'd relax a bit, some babies just feed quickly though a bit of gentle encouragement is fine

I doubt you starved her, but it is always worth trying to pick up on different signals for a happy saited baby.

Growth charts - I think that actually they are not based on ff babies as such just non-differentiated. So actually do include all types of fed babies. In the first few weeks bf babies tend to gain weight a little quicker than ff, but it changes a little after 4-5 months.

Teething - Yes can start and stop, and can bring lots of misery for all! Could well have been reason for tears and clinginess.

In your babies case, I would continue to keep regular visits with your hv just to keep an eye, but chances are if you are upping the bf then she will be fine, you are doing the right thing!

x posts Oli

Thanks everyone! I think that we're back on track. After the first day of the new routine, DD woke up twice in the night instead of once (presumably because by the evening, I'd run out milk and her last feed wasn't as filling as it used to be). But now she's back on one nightly feed as before. Also there is SO MUCH POO!!! Which she stores for when I'm changing her...messy!
I guess it's a good sign though...

For anyone who's interested, the WHO charts for breastfed babies are at:
www.who.int/childgrowth/standards/en/
I had a look and even going by those, DD would have still dropped a percentile as it's not until after 3 months that their growth slows down compared to ff babies.

Another site that seemed interesting:
www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/growthcharts.html

Please don't worry too much about the WHO charts. I did a fair amount of reading on the methodology they used and it results in an upward bias (for example, because mothers that topped up with formula because they were worried their babies weren't putting on enough weight were dropped from the study).

My sister had the same as you at one stage, her baby was sooo relaxed that she only demanded the minimum she needed to survive, when dsis started proactively offering the breast she gained much more weight.

So you weren't starving her, but she may need a bit of encouragement to eat the optimal rather than the minimum amount.

I thought my baby was relaxed, but hers was actually a case of not being able to feed enough (hypotonia) so she was gradually getting weaker and weaker, and therefore able to take less and less milk. For us, it did turn into a vicious circle. But she was quite a bit younger than yours.

We did end up in hospital and got good help from the bf counsellor. Sounds like you've sorted yourselves out without help. Well done!

Don't focus on what has or has not happened, think only about what is happening now. Yiu could drive yourself mad otherwise. You are doing a great job and as long as your baby was putting some weight on she was obviously feeding well. She may have been distracted by all the going ons and not fed as well as usual but you are both fine now and that is all that matters.

The crying when you leave the room sounds like classic separation anxiety symptoms. (I used to be the spokeswoman for a charity dealing with the emotional needs of babies and young children, if that helps.) Although your baby was with the in-laws, babies cannot understand that when you leave, you are going to come back. For the first nine weeks of her life you've been your baby's rock and touchstone, and she's just letting you know that not being able to find you scared her. Babies do find unfamiliar surroundings disruptive, so that explains the holiday. It all gets better once their language and reasoning skills kick in. By the time they are rising three, they should be able to understand that when you go away, you will come back.

As for the feeding and lack of weight gain... Can't really explain that but you seem to have found the solution.