DD5 Massive Meltdowns becoming a problem. Have no idea what to do.

[arfishy]

Since turning 5 DD has started to have massive meltdowns - screaming, hitting, lying on floor kicking, throwing, slamming tantrums.

Starting school in Feb has made this very much worse. She still gets up at around 6am and is getting very tired. I have struggled for years to get her to sleep later, but even starting school hasn't stopped her early starts.

On Monday I put her in after-school care for 1 hour and when DP went to collect her she had an almighty paddy because we were too early. She screamed so loudly that teachers came running thinking somebody was hurt. She carried on screaming until she got home. I had to phone the after-school organiser and apologise and also had to deal with her teacher asking me the next day if it was really DD she could hear screaming across the school

Tonight she had another huge paddy because DP had swept the leaves from her trampoline and she wanted them to play a game. She started screaming so I sent her to her room (it was 7pm and bedtime anyway). She REALLY lost it then and came flying up to me and hit me several times and then ran screaming to her room, slamming doors along the way. When I went in she hit me several more times and carried on screaming.

I have no idea how to deal with her during these tantrums. They are triggered by tiredness but nothing I do stops them. If I put her in her room she loses it completely and I have to go in to calm her down. She doesn't learn anything for next time however.

If she throws a big tantrum when we're at a friends house we leave immediately - no second chances. It makes no difference however, she always does it again.

I can't put her into after-school care now as afterwards she's over-tired. I'm starting to think I'll have to cancel our trip to the UK because she'll behave like this through jet lag and it will be awful.

Please somebody help [pleading emoticon]

Sorry - I have no advice to give but just wanted to send supportive vibes to you. Hopefully this is another of those things that will ease with time - but I can sympathise that it must be truly awful for you whilst you're going through it.

All that I can say, from a very brief experience of this (a very long time ago!) is that everything I read suggested that it was about attention-seeking as well as the child expressing frustration about not getting their own way.

How much do you actually ignore her, rather than trying to placate her - which is natural, especially in public!

Could you try giving her a later bedtime or does this not work?

Sorry and hope that someone else here can give you better advice!

Sympathise - dd is only 3.5 and at the weekend screamed the place down in a local shopping centre. We have always ignored her, but it seems to have no impact whatsoever. The only thing I have found works (a little) is if I actually stop responding to her at all and won't talk to her until she has completely calmed down. I go and get a cup of tea and sit in another room ostensibly having a lovely time with a book, if she comes in I ignore her. If she pushes me, I tell her to go out, I have no intention of dealing with her when screaming. If she won't go, I take my tea to another room. Won't say its fool-proof and it cuts them short rather than stopping them. With look with interest for any other suggestions you get.

Thanks Because and Goosey . She is very contrite this morning.

I haven't quite decided what to do. The star chart isn't working.

She's overtired. I might put her to bed at 6.30 for extra quiet time. 7pm seems to be a bad time for her. Normally we go to bed at 7pm, read books and then lights out for 7.30.

[despair]

I would definitely bring bedtime forward, even if she doesn't sleep straight away. Just resting will help her unwind better. How's her diet?

arfishy I sympathise, without much to offer in the way of help though, sorry! my DTs are 4.4 and although not at school they are at nursery from 7.30am every day - so have to be up early and they are generally asleep by abotu 6.30pm, I'd give that a go and see if it helps - their mood is definitely worse after a late night (and they usually waker earlier if in bed later )

Hi Arfishy,

Dealing with tantrums is really hard, my experience has been similar to yours, nothing really seems to work to calm them down.

Something I tried was talking to my daughter with a puppet. Another thing that I really believe has helped is eskimo kids omega 3, one spoonful in the morning, one at night.

You say that your daughter has them at friends houses, maybe that is her way of saying that she would rather be at home just with you?

My daughter's tantrums often happened more at a time when I was stressed or tired.

My daughter is seven now. She rarely has a tantrum now,

I hope this helps.

Thanks everybody .

Her diet is good, I am very strict and she has very little processed food and her 5+2 each day. She also already has omega 3 supplements. Her school is also very strict and they are not allowed to take in cakes, crisps, biscuits, sweets etc.

When she has a tantrum at a friends house it will be down to something not going her way, combined with tiredness. I'll bundle her into the car with her pleading to stay, so I think it is just down to her not handling her emotions well.

Its reassuring that your DD has grown out of hers Fluffy. Although 2 more years of this would send me bonkers. It's hard enough having a child who always has to go to bed on time and always wakes up early. Our friends don't understand and think I'm over-parenting. If they put their children to bed late they just wake up later the next morning.

Well done to you on the good diet. You're doing a lot better than I am!

Message withdrawn

Have you talked to her about this when she isn't having a tantrum?

I don't have any experience with older children, but I am going through this with my 3 yr old. I try to find a calm quiet time and talk about it in a non-threatening way. It seems to be helping.

Good luck. My mum is a clinical psychologist, and she says tantrums are to be endured, not cured, in that they grow out of them eventually. Great.

Oh thanks Bluesky and Pitchounette . Horrors about having to endure the tantrums.

Post-tantrum we do talk about it "I don't want to talk about this any more mummy". I explain that I understand why she was cross and it was because "xyz" and empathise with her feelings and then say that screaming isn't the way to behave. She agrees but still does it the next time.

I put her to bed at 6.30 last night but she didn't settle for 2 hours and ended up in my bed. So she ended up with even less sleep.

[sigh]

Oh well. Another huge meltdown tonight, involving biting, kicking and screaming. Sent to bed at 6.30.

3 days off school and lots of sleep, so no excuses really. I'm really upset and disappointed.

I have no idea where to go from here.

My dd2 was like this when she started school. Her teacher seemed to think it was quite unusual behaviour at this age.She is very sensitive and I think she was getting upset by things like strange teachers in the playground.She wasn't doing it at home, though. I'm glad to say it seems to have calmed down a bit now. I think it was due to the strange school environment and not being able to control her emotions. She was also doing two long days - breakfast club and afterschool club on two days, and getting overtired. I've cut this down to one after school session a week, through giving up a day at work!(not purely due to dd, I should add). I also tried to explain to her that it was ok to be angry, but that she had to take a deep breath and not lose it completely- that it was within her control.

I got her to put a hand on her chest and practice breathing in and out. (A tip I picked up on MN!) Also, it really will be a phase. If you support her through it, she will come out the other side.

I would also say, I would not do star charts (I'm a bit anti them, though.) It may be that you're over focusing on the behaviour by doing this? Just deal with the tantrum when it occurs, encourage to control it and really praise her when she does, even a bit, then move on.

Hmmm. Thanks littleshebear. Yes, the star chart doesn't make one jot of difference with the tantrums, although we use it mainly for bedtime, which has really stopped the messing around.

That's a bit worrying about the teachers thinking tantrums at this age unusual. Certainly the staff at school were horrified when she threw a massive meltdown for picking her up early from afer-school care (she was having too much fun and didn't want to be collected early).

I'll try the breathing thing next time, although I don't want to feed the tantrum by giving her attention. Normally I send her straight to her room.

Woo-hoo! I managed to diffuse a tantrum tonight.

I've started putting DD to bed at 6.45 (about 30 mins earlier) We've always had 15-20 minutes of reading and a talking book and we're carrying on but with lights out at 7pm instead of 7.30.

I also bought some large, tiger striped glowsticks to lure her to bed with - no arguments or fussing at bedtime, in fact, she's positively encouraging me to turn out the light. It's the tiger stripe. Normal ones are not effective.

When she kicked off tonight instead of just walking away I ignored the tantrum a different way and just repeatedly and calmly kept asking her to choose her bedtime books. I also said that I understood how she felt and why she felt it. I think the change in approach took the wind out of her sails as normally when I walk away she escalates her screaming.

[pleased with self]

Well done. I can't bear to stay in the same room as a tantrum.

Well done. Actually I don't think tantrums at this age are that unusual ( and DD is my number 4)but teacher kept going on about it. though I have to say, she doesn't really do them at home,except once (long story) and when she loses it, she really does, so I could sort of see why teacher was concerned.

I think it's a maturity thing, and with my dd, because she's number 4, I think she has had a bit of an easy ride up til now. We don't really spoil her, but everyone is very kind to her at home,as she has two much elder siblings who will do pretty much what she wants. Also, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've got cross or shouted at her - quite unlike the others!Probably because I'm just much more laid back now, and also because ds2 is so trying I've sort of honed my behavioural techniques so we don't really get frustration/tantrums at home.(Don't work on DS2 all the time though!)So I think she can't cope with frustrations/disappointments that well, which inevitably happen at school.

She has got better though - just getting used to the way things work there, I suppose.

I don't think walking away helps - except if you have to for your own sanity! My dh does this and it feels like a rejection for my (also 5 year old tantrumming) dd1.

I guess it may be something to do with school and tiredness. Our dd seems to have flipped since she started school in January. Combined with one cold after another, her behaviour has really deteriorated.

Sorry, I'm not being much help. I handle it best when I'm able to remain calm myself, not react to her, and stay nearby but detached - eg move to a chair across the room and start drawing or reading for myself. She calms herself down, and I only seem to wind her up if I try and intervene or get close to her.