5 year old and toilet issues, anyone else out there? (long)

[steppemum]

My ds is 5, very bright, intelligent, affectionate, lovely kid, except for the issues we are having around pooh. It started at around 3.5, he started poohing his pants (was potty trained and fine since 2.5) Not much, usually just a smear, but we could see/smell that he needed the loo and he insisted (to the point of screaming and crying) that he didn't. Then I would either check his pants, or he would finally go to the loo, and he would have dirty, sometimes very dirty pants. I had a long talk to my Mum (who used to teach early childhood developement) and she said that toilet issues in a child who is potty trained is ALWAYS a sign of emotional stress. We looked at his life and realised he was very busy, we cut down his childcare sessions/playdates etc and gave him more time at home, and eventually the dirty pants stopped. That was 1.5 years ago. Since then, whenever there is change in his life, we get dirty pants again. We live overseas, and so when we travel backwards and forwards we do get times of change etc. Although usually nice change (going to stay with Granny and Grandpa)
Recently though, there has been more. I found pooh smeared on his pillow the other day, another time he wanted to do a pooh after bedtime basically did it in his PJ s and then went to the bathroom, dripping pooh out of his pyjama leg on the way and yesterday he had stuck his hands down his pants, then wiped his poohy fingers on his sisters pyjamas, luckily I found them before bedtime.

I find it so yucky. Sometimes I get cross about it with him. (doesn't help) mostly we talk seriously about how it is dirty (how would you feel if you went to get your pyjamas and they were covered in someone else's pooh) etc. He understands, but still does it.

We have a new baby (4 months) but ds has coped really well, seems to enjoy his new sister and we have tried to keep the normal routines going. He has lots of Mummy time, not overstressed etc, but we are still getting it.
This really presses my buttons (maybe he knows that) and I am so embarrased by it - sometimes he does it when we are at someone else's house. I am so tired of cleaning up dirty pants too.
I know that it will pass (the mantra of parenthood - it will pass, it will pass) but please tell me there are other parents out there who have had this, please tell me it does pass, please tell me I am not a monster that my child is somehow stressed and having dirty pants.
And any suggestions for dealing with it are very welcome.

Hi, first I don't entirely agree that toilet issues in a trained child is always a sign of emotional stress (also early childhood trained)
I think perhaps there maybe quite a complex situation going on here,
It would be worth checking that he isn't constipated and getting seepage around the blockage, this can cause embaressment and discomfort and can also go hand and hand with inappropriate behaviour and/or misbehaviour. If this is not an underlying cause then I think that he has clicked that he has a really powerful tool at his disposal to control his life and push your buttons. If this is the case (and I know it is soooo easy to say and sooo much more difficult to actually achieve)use the age old ignore, ignore, ignore. He is now old enough to change himself and take anything he soils or spoils to the laundry. If out in public or someones's house weigh up which would inconvenience him more 1. leaving ( if somewhere he wants to be, do it very calmly, "oh you've forgotten to use the toilet, we need to go home so you can clean up"or 2. if somewhere he wants to leave (ie he is bored or wanting to get out of being there) deal with it there with as little imput as you can get away with "ds you need to change, here are your clothes...if he doesn't then be prepared to have consequences "ds you will need to sit in the car, spare room, laundry, toilet (whatever) I'll check if you are ready to change in x minutes"
In the meantime ham it up when he does use the toilet, talk about how well he does with wees and how proud that makes you.

Thanks yawningmonster. I have wondered about constipation, he tends to do enormous poohs about every 2 days. He eats well, including lots of fruit. Sometimes i think that is it, especially as at those times he does seem embarrased about it. This could also explain the sticking his fingers in his bum part of it. But at other times it is definitely stress related.
I don't mind it so much when it has happened and he is embarrased, that seems to me that it is not really voluntary, whether stress related of whether physical. It is these latest tricks of smearing it/dropping it over the house which I hate. It would be so much easier to deal with if he would tell me, instead of wondering round with dirty pants (and then leaving a trail)

I know I need to ignore, but I think he can see me ignoreing him through gritted teeth!!

please tell me I am not the only Mum that has toilet issues with a 5 year old?????

I can't comment about having a 5 year old who does this, as my 5 year old doesn't. But my 3.5 year old, seems to have an issue with poohing. He appears to completely toilet trained and then he seems to backslide (excuse the pun) Don't know why he does this, don't understand why he isn't getting to the stage of not liking have poohy pants or fingers. In fact he smeared pooh all over his bedroom walls the other day
I understand there is a massive age difference between the two of them, but thought it might be of interest to you.
I will watch this thread with interest as well

My DD was clean from 2.5ish, she is now 4yrs 5 months, and since last September she refuses to sit on the toilet and poos in her knickers. The trigger was a bad case of constipation, which caused her to be fearful of going to the loo because it hurt, but it has developed into a control issue now, I think. I have no idea what to do about it though. She is starting school in September, and I am at a loss.

could have a lazy bowel does he eat plenty of veg and fibre

celery, your post really resonated with me, and I have just been reading another thread about constipation, and I am beginning to put 2 and 2 together and think that he gets a bit constipated and then doesn't want to sit on the loo because it is uncomfortable. When he goes he does sometimes strain and get very red faced etc. I guess because he always ends up poohing that I hadn't really thought about constipation. From the other thread people said their dcs get very bad tempered and behaviour goes right off as well, and I am wondering if that could explain a few things.

I have to say though, that the original problem 1.5 years ago was emotional, becauee it responed very quickly to our giving him more time etc.

he eats well, lots of fibre, fruit veg and fruit juice and water to keep him going. He drinks a lot too.

It is midnight here, so I'm going to bed, I hope to wake up to more on this thread, thanks for posting

my 5yrold son has major toilet issues, he poos himself regularly or just has a little bit stuck on his bottom. He refuses to go to the loo sometimes and flatley refuses to wipe his bottom . It has become an issue at school. At first they were very patient with him , but it happens so often now that they have told him that he is big enough not to poo himself and to wipe his own bottom. He understands that it is not acceptable, but tells me he cant help it . He seems to have a real issue with all things toilet and has started to wet himself too. His teacher has told me he has tantrums and he gets cross very easily. She also has suggested he needs to grow up a bit as he is a bit babyish and demands attention all the time and he hates being alone . I think this is probably to do with my parenting , I do alot for all 3 of my children ( my other to children are 22 and 24) and fear I might be babying my 5 yr old , but I do wonder if he has constipation as he only( Massive) poos every 3 - 5 days. ANY advice would be so useful

yes it does sound like chronic constipation with overflow, and the constipation can press on the bladder causing urine leaks too

GP will prob prescribe movicol to clear him out and then keep him on it for a good while. He may need a scan to see how far back he is blocked

the bottom wiping is something you need to work on, perhaps a bit of bribery with star charts, mini lego figures, whatever

good luck khoulker

We had similar iss uses with my DS (5) until recently. He was fully potty trained until my DD was very ill and he had to stay with my parents. I think that my DM managed to stress him to the point that he became very constipated. We finally sorted it recently through a combination of a reward chart with a
'big' prize for a month clean, combined with being hotter ourselves on reminding him to have a try each evening to try to get into a good routine.
It is such a relief to finally be past it.