worried about 7yr old dd behaviour - mild autism? any advice welcomed

[sulkysuzie]

I have always felt that there was something not quite 'right' with dd. She has always been quite a tom boy prefers to be climbing and running then playing with dolls. She struggles at school and is in the remedial class. She also finds it very diificult to make friends although she wants to she will only play by her rules and wont compromise. She is also a very teary child and will say that she doesnt no whats wrong. Just read some info on autistic spectrum disorders and thought could that be her? Any thoughts?

Might be but then again might not be. She sounds rather like dd's best friend who is not thought to be on the autistic spectrum but just a bit eccentric. She struggled socially at first, but is now part of a very good group of friends who basically accept her eccentricities because they think she is worth it.
Very hard to tell without knowing your dd, really.

I have been reading all the info from NAS and it is difficult because some things i think yes she does that and others she doesnt. she doesnt always respond when you speak to her. She is very sensitive, crys at the slightest things. She repeats everything you say to her. On the rare occasions that she does sit still she will still swing her legs especially at the dinner table (Very annoying) She has very poor concentration - 5mins max and gets easily distracted. So to drone on but although she loves going to school she comes home crying saying she has had a bad day but cant tell me why. Teachers have said that she is ok on a one to one basis but struggles in group activities. I am really worried about her just want to see her smiling

sounds more like attention deficit disorder from what you have said, my nephew is autistic and can absorb himself in something for hours, when he was really little, about 2-3, he would sit and watch 4 hours of movies without moving, my dd is the same age and would watch 10mins of balamory before she was off, and he is very poor with eye contact, which is typical autism.

The autistic spectrum is huge and some people say that we are all on it at some point... have you seen your gp or health visitor?

I spoke to my gp about 12mths ago about adhd because a friend of mine suggested that she may have it. He took one look at her and said no definately not it was just me being over sensitive. She was sat quietly at the time as she gets very anxious at the doctors due to her experiences with her grommets. She is pretty good with eye contact.

It often seems to me that many of the behaviour problems associated with Aspergers and ADHD are things that many NT children do SOMETIMES, whereas SN children are doing them much more.

I wonder if anyone could recommend a web-site with general questions, or lists of tendencies that would help to identify if your child's problems fall into NT, or not.

It might be worth speaking to her teacher. Is she is in the remedial class the teachers tend to be very knowledgable about this kind of thing. Hope this helps!

I don't think this sounds like ADHD or ASD. Being a tomboy and not wanting to play with dolls is not pathological. It is also normal for 7 years olds to run around all the time, and fidget when they do have to sit still, and not concentrate for long periods (although of course some are better than others).

She does sound like she has a sensitive personality.

Also, children to develop at different rates, she may do better in school both academically and socially as she gets older, she is still very young.

Doesn't sound like ADHD tbh. You are absolutely right about the some of the time/more of the time distinction. I'm not sure a list would help - i think you would come up against the same problem, with some of the descriptions 'fitting' and some not. Does your DD have an understanding of other people's feelings and ideas? Children on the Autistic Spectrum often have real problems with seeing other people's point of view. Another common problem is struggling with a social conversation - does your DD ask you about your feelings? experiences? Does she start a chatting spontaneously with you? Is this comfortable or does it feel like a struggle?

One of the problems with all the literature out there is that because its mostly boys/men who are diagnosed, most of the descriptions and even the diagnostic criteria are 'male' (imo). Services are still not great at recognising when girls have problems and i think a lot of girls remain undiagnosed (which may or may not be a problem, depends on all sorts of factors and people's perspectives) And the eye contact thing is a myth - yes, lots of children have problems with it, but not all (well, not obviously).

Would you feel comfortable having a chat with your daughters teacher? If so it might be worth explaining your concerns and ask them in turn to have a quiet chat with everyone at school who knows your daughter well and see if anyone has any worries about her (especially socially)

BTW, nothing you say makes me think 'oh yes, she definitly has an autistic spectrum disorder', its just if you have an instinct that something is not 'right', then that probably carries more weight than a brief once over by GP, if that makes sense.

Sorry, not very well written and a bit waffly. Sleep deprivation and hang over!! Hope that helps.

I have to say that she doesn't particularly sound like an ASD child to me. She sounds very sensitive and maybe a little highly strung but she doesn't sound obviously autistic. She doesn't do anything that a lot of other 7 year olds don't do at one time or another. That said it is a spectrum so she could be at the least affected end but if you are really worried get your GP to refer her to a paediatrician to have an assessment.

You said that she had grommets fitted. Has her hearing been badly affected? Maybe her difficulties or differences are related to that. Maybe she hasn't caught up the ground lost when she couldn't hear properly. Is she in the remedial class for everything or is it just certain areas she is struggling with?

What is the "Remedial Class"? I thought that term went out 20 years ago!!! Do the kids know it's called that?
Is she on the SEN register? I think you should speak to the Special Needs Coordinator about your concerns and find out what they think - perhaps they could refer her for a specialist assessment, like speech and language which would assess her ability to understand, empathise, etc. This would then give you a better idea of what her needs and difficulties are.

My work is ASD-related and from the information given it doesn't sound much like that to me. As someone mentioned, if you see ASD as a spectrum then 'very mild ASD' is basically normal anyway. I'm less familiar with ADHD, but there is a form, especially in girls, that is day-dreamy rather than hyperactive. It's STILL hard to get my attention because I am thinking/day dreaming all the time.

The only worrying part is that she seems unhappy and of course you want ot know why and if there is something that could help her. Not playing with dolls is definitely not a sign of pathology. She does sound very sensitive and it would be a help if you could get her to explain a bit more about her 'bad' days. Sometimes drawing and role-playing with dolls can help with this. I do this with dd (2.8) who can be very shy and sensitive - we role-play having toys at nursery to help her express her feelings and so I can get a better grasp of what is going on especially when she is having a difficult time.

I wouldn't hazard a guess either way about possible ASD, but I wonder if there might be some sort of subtle language problem going on here. The preferring physical activities could fit in with that, as does the repeating/being better 1-1 than in groups. Or as Niecie pointed out, possibly your DD still has some degree of hearing problems even though grommets were fitted. I would get her hearing re-checked, as hearing problems could be at the bottom of some of these problems.

ADD, ADHD, without the hyperactivity is very under diagnised.

Often the schools let these kids 'slip' through the system, because their behaviour is seldom if ever disruptive.

thankyou, everybody for your help. dd does still have a hearing loss despite the gromets and this could be the route of her problems ie working better in smaller groups, not always responding etc but the paed assured me this was not the cause of her probs. Her teachers agree with me and say she is better in one to one situations and does not cope well in her large tutor group. Yes whirly the kids do no it is a remedial class the teachers call it this! Do you think that this label could make her aware that she is different and that is why she is not fitting in. She is in this class for all subjects although she is starting to catch up with english, she becomes very frustrated even with simple maths.

Dd is one of only three children who are in the remedial class for all subjects and thinking about it the other two children also have similar problems with not fitting in. Also it does not bother me that she is a tom boy but it makes it hard for her to find girl friends with similar interests as most of them are more iterested in 'girly games'. She is not disruptive at school but is constantly talking. Anybody else out there with a child in a remedial class? I think i might be looking for a label for her because i dont know how to help her anymore I just want her to be happy. If i found a name for her behaviour then i could cure her. I know that sounds daft and i know i cant cure her and at home me and dh and ds just accept the way she is and love her dearly. It is just hard to know that she is struggling at school and i just wish that her behaviour was more accepted.

I thought that might be the case - that being a tomboy might make it hard for her to fit in with other girls - and I totally understand wanting a label so you have a handle on what to do for her (which is the purpose of the labels really).

I think it's worth checking some possibilities - her hearing and maybe an assessment in case there is something like ADHD going on (get a better, expert opinion). I had dd's hearing checked for this kind of reason but it was fine - but best to know for sure.

she may have sensory issues. My daughter used to be abit like yours

I was thinking sensory issues too which is why I asked about the hearing. They can be part of ASD but they may not be.

There is a book called The Highly Sensitive Child that talks about this and how some children just get overloaded by their senses. Might be worth a look.

The paed said that the hearing wasn't the cause of your DD problems but did they not take it further and discuss what the real cause might be instead? Can you go back and discuss it further?

I know what you mean about getting a name for it though. My son supposedly has Aspergers and dyspraxia yet the professionals don't seem to be able to agree on what to call him and it is very frustrating not to have that short hand. Some of them say that a label doesn't matter because he is getting help but that may not always be the case and I want to be able to say to him, as much as anybody, that he is struggling with something because he has X Y or Z and at the moment I can't do that.

Good luck finding some help though.

I agree that sensory issues are worth looking into- look up sensory integration dysfunction- plenty of books on amazon that are good like The OUt of Sync Child (terrible name but good book) My son has it from a brain condition but I am sure there are many kids out there who are diagnosed as ADHD/autistic or just badly behaved who actually have sensory proecssing disorders. WE actually have 7 senses- the usual 5 plus the vestibular sense which is to do with balance and proprioception which is how your body knows where it is in space. Sometimes the inability to sit still is all about needed that kind of sensory input The world is a very overwhelming place for my son and some of his behaviours are challenging and annoying but it does help when you know what you are dealing with. Occupational therapists can assess for it and devise programmes to help treat it.

I have been reading the info regarding sensory sensitivity and it does sound like it fits. Dd is very clumsy and forever bumping into things. She will also only wear certain fabrics and styles of clothes and i have to cut the labels out of them as she says they irritate her wherever they are. When she is sitting still she has to be doing something ie swingin legs or chewing on her clothes, she also puts her hands up to her face when she is being told off. She isnt terribly naughty i just get fed up of telling her off for the same thing over and over again. I have started doing 'house rules' for her which have started to help her. I think because they are concrete things that she can learn. I have also tried to encourage her love of physical things. She did gymnastics for three years which helped tremendously with her balance but she started to fall behind the other children so we stopped that. We also tried swimming lessons but the groups were too big for her, an considering one to one lessons but quite expensive. Tried to get her into the local athletics track bu they wont take her till she is 9. Recently bought an exercise bike (was for me but i havent got round to using it yet - lol) My dd goes on it every day after school and it seems to help, she seems a lot calmer once she has been on it. Sorry i am waffling

Thanks ohmeohmy i do think she gets overwhelmed. We had a birthday party for her last year and she got so excited that she made herself physically sick and just sat on the side on the actual day, she is the same at xmas and i dont tell her if we are going somewhere even to the park because she just gets hyper - running around, screaming, shouting, crying. Now i just say get your coat on we are going out this seems to work better for her and causes her less stress.

You can get things called chewy tubes- like teething things but not for babies- I got one off ebay I think on the suggestion of the occ. therapist as my son grinds his teeth- apparently there are a lot of proprioceptors in the jaw. I know there are some online sellers of clothes for kids with eczema that have no seams or labels or seams on the outside of pyjamas etc but can't remember the name. We have been advised to do firm pressure squeezing (up and down arms), play steamrollers with a physio ball and do skin brushing to help chill out his nervous system. Most of the books about sensory processing have checklists that help figure things out. Good luck

Thankyou everybody. I have spoken to my dds school teacher and they have agreed to investigate further so i am absolutely delighted. Thanks ohmeohmy for your suggestions i will definately look into them