Is this normal 4 year old behaviour?

[AnxiousMummy91]

My 4yo DS has always had high energy and literally does not stop all day. He's always been very forward for his age in terms of his speech and is so intelligent especially with numbers. He is a very loving boy. But he has also become increasingly difficult to manage as he has gotten older.

He doesn't listen to a word me and DH say. He goes from 0 to angry very quickly and then lashes out, hits, kicks, stamps, spits, screams. It is always over something so trivial, if we do something slightly different to the way he wanted it. But also when he is told off because we have asked him 20 times in a row to not do something that is unsafe. He is constantly jumping and climbing and hurting himself or us. We try and ask him calmly but it always ends in us raising our voices because it's the only thing that gets his attention, then he gets upset and we feel terrible. We try to talk to him about how he is feeling to see where the behaviour is maybe coming from, but we never get anywhere. We are at the end of our tether quite honestly.

Every part of our day is just so testing, for example getting dressed for school cos he just runs off, walking up to school because he won't hold our hand near busy roads, getting him to stop and come and do anything if he is engaged in something he likes. If we are playing games with him he gets over excited and it ends in tears. He always has to take things to the extreme, and gets easily obsessed with things.

He was always lovely at nursery, they never had any complaints about his behaviour, and so far so good sat school, so I know he can listen and follow instructions. Socially he has always been spot on, gets on with other kids and adults and has never been shy.

Some family members have mentioned ADHD but would he be too young to consider that? I wouldn't want to label him either, and I hope he will grow out of it, but in the same breath if there is something there I don't want to ignore it.

I would say that regularly physically lashing out is starting to be a bit out of the ordinary at 4. I have heard good things about Ross Greene's 'The Explosive Child', but I've not read it myself. I think most places won't assess for ADHD for another couple years because it's too hard to separate from just being a small child.

If he is very high energy, is he getting plenty of outlets for that every day? Do you have things for him to jump and climb at home that you can redirect him to? I would say my 4 year old is relatively calm for the age, but there are still definitely times I've sent her to go jump on our small indoor trampoline to work off some excitement or frustration.

Does a very consistent routine help at all with getting ready in the morning, perhaps with pictures to refer to and things to check off? We've also had luck with building in a bit of time at the end to do a highly desired activity (which yes, might be screentime) – but only if she's all ready for the day. It gives her an incentive to get on with it and get ready that isn't just mummy saying 'hurry up, we'll be late'.

We do have a consistent routine, he knows what comes when, but we have spoken about a chart where he can tick things off when he's done them so I think we will try that.

DH and I both work 5 days a week, he works til 8-4 and I work around school times 9.30-2.30. We don't do anything physical during the week, as when DH finishes work its straight into prep for dinner for 5pm then after is bath and bed routine. I have been looking into gymnastic classes for him for in the week. We get out at the weekend and he does rugby tots on a Sunday, but maybe a park trip/short walk after school or after tea would be beneficial. It is difficult as I have a few health problems which means I just don't have the energy that he has, and DH struggles with depression. Probably all sounds like excuses and we do need to get out more in the week!

Is DH getting help for his depression? I agree that 4 year olds do need exercise. Like Sky says an indoor trampoline is great at this age.

Does he walk to and from school too or use a Scooter?

If he's running off I'd be very clear that's it's holding hands or reins, even at 4.

Would swimming lessons be manageable too?

One of my DC has been diagnosed with ADHD and the other is being assessed. Both behaved beautifully at school too.

Hi, I was just coming to post something similar about DS2 and ask for help. I could relate to 70% of your words... 😂

I don't have the answer about helping them listen and cooperate. But I do have an older child who has ADHD. So I'd like to share some points which you might find helpful.

ADHD usually runs in the family. It's rarely acquired without the input of genes. So you need to look around and see if any adults in the family may have the condition (diagnosed or not).

ADHD children usually behave the same way at home and in nursery/school settings. So if you little one is a star child outside home, I suspect it's unlikely anything to do with ADHD. It indicates that he knows what's right and what's wrong and is capable of behaving accordingly. So it's more likely a case of pushing the boundary at home before he feels safe with family members.

I know the above doesn't help you solve the behaviour issue at home - as I said, I came here and was just about to post similar request for help!

But at least, you probably can rest the concern for a potential ADHD.

What other people suggested might be spot on and there are lots of parenting books to guide. My little one is very bright too, but because of so, he has his own mind and knows really well about what he wants, hence less likely just go along with what's been suggested/told like normal children do. (My older child is an opposite). They also have a stronger sense of self, and less likely to want to bend their will to please others like normally a child would do.

Good luck. It's challenging, but hopefully they would mature gradually and learn to know how to love...

Have to disagree somewhat. Both of my DC are bright but mainly inattentive ADHD. So they will present at school but as it's mainly an inability to focus they get labelled as daydreamers or lazy.

We do walk to and from school, its a 10/15min walk and he has swimming lessons once a week at school this term as his school has its own swimming pool.

He is beautifully behaved for other people, grandparents, aunties/uncles etc. He definitely knows his own mind and wants things how he wants and when he wants them.

DH is currently signed off, is on medication alongside being signed off and is looking into counselling.

Funnily enough he has been a superstar tonight, very little push back on anything, held my hand all the way back from school. Ate all his tea and pudding happily and has had a shower no problem. We tend to get patches where he is better like this and then it returns to the challenging behaviour.

My sisters 2 kids have ASD and my sister is being tested for ADHD as an adult as she is convinced she has it. So there could be something there.

He is a kid that doesn't miss a trick, notices everything and everyone and always has done. As a baby everyone said "he doesn't miss a thing does he?" I feel like he is so intelligent and switched on, yet he has really big emotions that he can't yet regulate and this behaviour is the result?

Sorry for the mega reply, I'm not experienced on MN so I've tried to answer everyone at once 😅

They can be only inattentive, not hyperactive. But the behaviour would have to be consistent in any settings.

My point is if a child doesn't have a tendency to be hyperactive or destructive in the school setting, then the problem at home is less likely to be anything like ADHD.

Isn't that one of the diagnosis criteria?

@AnxiousMummy91 , DH often reminds me, shouldn't forget he's still a very young child who's not able to rein his own emotions, regardless how bright he appears...

By the way, if your sister believes she has it, does any of your parents have it? One of them would have it to enable the inheritance.

@Return2thebasic I wouldn't say either of my parents do, or not that I've ever really noticed. I struggle with anxiety and my mum definitely has that but has has never been diagnosed properly (I have). I'm the eldest of 3, my sister is the middle kid and my mum said she knew my sister was different to me and my brother as kids with her behaviour but just put her down to being a naughty kid as it wasn't as well known about back when we were kids. My sister has done an ADHD questionnaire from the GP and she scored highly in every area apparently.

If you can add gymnastics or some park trips during the week, it would probably help, but you've got a lot on your plate, with your health issues and your DH's depression. If you can manage it, I really would think about at-home stuff like an indoor trampoline (we have this one https://www.galttoys.com/products/folding-trampoline, and it seems to still be going strong after 2 years) or indoor climbing stuff – then it can just be used any time, no extra energy needed from you, or even built into his routine.

Isn't that one of the diagnosis criteria

Most definitely and in the OP case it is true. I was just pointing out that the Teachers totally overlooked the ADHD behaviour in my DC because it was inattentive and therefore not destructive.

@AnxiousMummy91 if two of your sisters have ASD could his behaviours be because he has ASD too?

@skkyelark the trampoline looks great but we are in a small house and are already over run by toys, so space would be an issue. Wr didnhave one in the garden but it was guven to us byna family member and it was second hand to them so it broke recently :( I have just booked him on to a taster session for Gymnastics for after school on Tuesday, is only 10 mins away from us and is basically straight after school so it won't interfere too much with our evening routine.

@SiouxsieSiouxStiletto my sisters kids are on the extreme end, non verbal, still in nappies at almost 5 and 7yo. I know ASD presents in many different ways and I worked with adults with ASD for many years. He certainly has some traits but I don't know if they are enough to be ASD, we all have traits here and there .