Does your 5 yr old still have tantrums like this ???

[ChristmasCracker]

The type where they sit on the floor in the middle of the street and refuse to move, where they scream and scream and scream at you like you are trying to murder them, where they cry that much they are sick ????

Well mine does, should she be ??? She has always been a handful but i thought she might have started to grow out of it by now.

My boy as a five year old was still perfectly capable of this sometimes. Well, he didn't make himself sick but he did scream and tantrum. It has now mostly passed. He's 7 now. Sympathy, it's horrible I know. I used to either distract, bribe or try to ignore it most of the time if it was in the street.

I haven't had it in the street, but I've had a fair bit of it at home recently, so lots of sympathy. She's 6 in a few weeks so I'm hoping this will miraculously stop, but am not holding my breath.

I try to ignore her and even walk off, but she isn't bothered and would sit there until the cows come home.
Todays episode was because her sister came out of school with a lolly and she didn't have one.

She just kept shouting Lolly lolly at me. I told her i didn't have one to give her but she carried on and on, lying on the ramp up to her classroom screaming, with people climbing over her.
I removed her and so she lay on the playground floor instead and the screaming contined. One of her friends moms offered her an orange and she shouted NO at her.

We eventually managed to get home with her having screamed all the way and then she was sick.

She can have this sort of tantrum at the drop of a hat and i am all out of ideas of how to handle it.
Dp reckons i am not strict enough with her (i don't smack her), but i honerstly don't know what to do withher. I have asked the H.V for help before but she just sent her for a hearing test which she passed so that was that. I have tried to find a parenting class, but couldn't and i am exhausted from all of her tantrums and now Ds (2) is showing alarmingly similar behvaiour.

Hi Christmas Cracker. I think you've got to be firm but if you're not a smacker, don't start now, I can't see it helping. If the tantrums don't pay off, (i.e. she never, EVER gets what she wants as a result of one) she will stop them eventually. I think you did the right thing, moving her and then ignoring her today.

Also, I know some people don't like this idea, but I'll offer it as it worked for us. We had a star chart and a behaviour book. Ds got a star on the chart 3 times a day - once for getting ready for school well, once for behaviour after school and once for going to bed without a fuss. After a certain no of stars (usually a week's worth, sometimes more) he got a treat, a beyblade or something. If he behaved badly (we were talking hitting me here) it was written down in the book. My thinking behind the book was a) I was properly monitoring how he was behaving. At the time I thought he was being awful most of the time but writing it down showed that it was a lot less than I thought, it just felt like a lot of the time! also b) it gave me a minute to calm down before reacting and c) he saw that bad behaviour had consequences. If 3 things were written down in the book something (like a toy or a party) was taken away. Stars were NEVER taken away though, once he'd earned them, that was it, he'd earned them. Anyway, we explained all this v clearly before it started and he tested us a bit to see if we meant it but then we did it and it worked.

We still sometimes use a star chart if his behaviour goes downhill but we haven't had the book for ages and ages. I also used to (still do actually sometimes) give warnings and a countdown, i.e. if you haven't done xyz by the time I count to 5 then xxx will happen. I always follow through so he knows I mean it. Dp and I always back each other up too, ds knows he will never divide us over discipline so that helps. I like Steve Biddulph \link{http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0722536690/qid=1102970942/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-4344765-9163043\The Secret of Happy Children,} some good ideas there too. Hope there's something in there that helps.

UNfortunatly she did have a start chart which she ripped up in a fit of temper.

I am just worried that if she continues in this way and i continue to not deal with it properly then Ds is going to end up exactly the same. He already ignores everything i say and finds dd2's behaviour hilarious.

Have you talked to ds about it? I think www approach sounds very good for dealing with dd2. Can't give any tips there- however can give our experience on different standards of behaviour in siblings. DS1 is severely autistic and tantrums, screaming fits and general hideous behaviour is pretty much a daily occurrence. DS2 is 2 (almost 3) and I've found talking to him about ds1's behaviour works quite well- he knows its not acceptable for him to behave in that way (and he doesn't yet understand that ds1 is autistic or in any way different). Some things seem grossly unfair (as in ds1's case there are things we can't insist on) but ds2 seems to take it in his stride- and appears to accept his boundaries as his. Of curse we may just be lucky that he's fairly happy go lucky and number 3 may yet show meto be completey wrong :o

One thing that I do try to do is avoid ds1's flashpoints with ds2. So for example at the moment ds1 is absolutely impossible to get into the house as he gets stuck on some elaborate routine which involves running in various directions, touching various things and sniffing cars. Every trip between the car and house reuslts in a scuffle and having to physically carry ds1 in. If ds2 is there as well he follows his brother trying to do the same things- it's complete chaos and totally unsafe- so I always take ds2 in first by himself. Otherwise he gets in a strop that he isn't allowed to run around following the same elaborate routine as ds1.

Actually yes the book does sound like a good idea, i will try that out. Even if it only showed that she wasn't being like this all the time i woujld be happy.

I can't talk to Ds about Dd's behaviour Jimjams because he is only just 2 and wouldn't understand me.

I do try and avoid situations which i know will result in a tantrum but often they will just come out of the blue and it's like once she starts she just can't stop, and she gets really exhausted afterwards (well i do too).

She will also repeat herself over and over again if she is asking for something she can't have (like the lolly), and i mean repeat and repeat and repeat. I usually just ignore her when she does this but there is only so much i can take.

When a friend was here the other week she commented on how well she thought i dealt with dd's tantrums (she had several) and said i had lots of patience as i just told her that she couldn't have/do what she wanted and then refused to talk to her until she had calmed down.

It made me laugh cos i always feel like such a failure where her behaviour is concerned.

Have you ever had any outside help/advice cc???

Yes. Perfectly normal with our dd5. Usually indicative of need of sleep or food. Or both. You're not alone Usually happens after school with me - how 'bout you?

Yes, and still does age 7, one tonight.
Except it wasnt really a tantrum it was more a power struggle. She wanted me to get her I drink I wanted her to get one...so she shouted for over an hour.

Yes, my ds had one tonight. He wanted to watch Cat in the Hat instead of going to bed, and because he's sick at the moment, thought that he would get his own way. Shouted, yelled and ranted when he didn't.

I'm sick myself, so couldn't be bothered to deal with it. Best way really, otherwise I think I'd have shouted, yelled and ranted back! We made up after he'd yelled for about 45 minutes and realised he wasn't going to get his own way.

DD (almost 4) had an earsplitting corker tonight. I think it was her worst ever. She doesn't tantrum often, so it's a real shock when she does. Tonight's episode was so bad that my cousin - who was bringing by a package for me - simply left it outside the front door and called to tell me it was there. He thought it was best not to ring the bell as he could hear all hell breaking loose inside! We've just moved to a new house, so heaven knows what the neighbors thought! It's quite mesmerising to see your child completely consumed by rage, and I must admit to a terrible inclination to burst out laughing. Here's hoping that tantrums won't still be occuring at firve, but who's to say?

Blossom - I have asked the H.V advice several times but as she is as good as gold at school, i think they think i must be exageratting. Her nursery used to look at me like i was lying too until they witnessed one of her tantrums.

I would really like to do a parenting class or something, just to guide me to the right way/other ways of dealing with her, but haven't been able to find any.

Carla - She is definatly more liekly to have one when tired or after school etc but really she can have them at any given time, basically when things aren't going her way.

Littledrummerbird - I have laughed several times, more at myself really cos i just stand there not knowing what to do with her.

You may be surprised how much ds can understand christmas cracker. I started talking to ds2 about ds1's behaviour from around age 2 (before ds2 was talking anyway). Nothing major- just if he tried to do something unacceptable that ds1 does something like "no you don't have to do that" or "you don't have to copy", or even just a direct "can you stop sniffing books/people/screaming please" (substitute a direct request for whatever it was). I have a bit of an easy cop out now ('ds1 can't talk and you can so you can do x, y, z', or "ds1 doesn't understand and you do" but you could substitute something similar "dd2 doesn't know how to behave but you do" or something- might work on your dd2 as well to be compared unfavourably to a younger brother- especially if he then does behave and you get to praise him a lot ) but it did help him to understand that he musn't behave like ds1. He is very good on the road for example now and does wait when told etc leaving me 2 hands to deal with ds1- and he's been doing that for well over 6 months - so from earlyish twos.

As a follow up ...... I realised much of the tantrum was probably due to being overtired/suffering from jetlag (we are in America at the moment), so I simply put her to bed and she was out almost immediately. She is still asleep, so is getting the longest sleep she's had since we've been here. She did wake about an hour ago briefly to say "mummy, my head hurts". I told her it was probably because she had cried so hard last night. She immediately went back to sleep, poor little thing. I'm not surprised her head hurts after last night's spectacular display....

Don't know if this will help but have been bringing my baby to see an osteopath and mentioned my son's fierce temper (door kicking, thumping, rage etc) and she said kids can often have a growth spurt at this age and it's almost as if they don't fit their body. Seems they can often have a headache type feeling. Don't know...

I have an eleven year old boy who still has tantrums. There is hope though I have twin girl's of seven who never really had bad tantrums - more of a small strop!