ok it has finally happened, ds has started with the 4 yo boy hyper thing and it is driving me nuts, BUT I am still a lentil weaver, so what do I do?

[Fillyjonk]

He SEEMS to be being deliberately naughty. As (when he has been told not to) in chucking stuff on the floor, shouting to wake up his sisters, swinging on the doors (this drives me irrationally nuts-I am terrified they will come off their hinges and fall on him, as indeed one nearly did). He also says, when challenged, that he is trying to provole us.

He also has so much freaking energy. He is walked religiously twice a day, and aside from that the garden is set up so he can play out there alone safely whenever he wants (he doesn't seem to feel the cold ). But he is always bouncing off the walls.

Now I am not one for rewards and punishment but I have talked and talked here.

He does have a very new sister, in addition to a 2 yo sister, but this has all been going on for a few months now. I have obviously talked with him about the baby, I honestly am not getting the impression that its that. And I have religiously spent 1-1 time with the older kids every day since the birth.

I am wondering if I am expecting too much here. He is very verbal and I think does reason out loud pretty well, so perhaps I am thinking there is more deliberation going on in his head than there actually is?

Thoughts?

i think room is a good opt out for bohth of you
spec when losing face becomes an issue

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My baby really is annoying me on purpose . Oh ar$e.

Challenges good, he actually does all those things already (ex the animal stuff-he feeds the worms in the wormery though) but will think of more.

I know a part of the problem from his pov is space. he reacts badly to noise-he really hates it. Unfortunately, we only have 2 bedrooms so, until we somehow raise enough money for a loft conversion in about 300 years, he is stuck sharing with his sister (and pretty soom te baby will be in therer too, and it will be even worse). We are trying to think of ways to divvy up the space so he has one bit that is his but...tbh most of the room is made up of either beds or chests of drawers, and we've already had to be pretty creative.

Am musing on lots of things here though, this is a very helpful thread for me even if there are no lightbulbs going off.

(oh dear i was hoping you did have a fab & easy technique there franny, you often do . Ah well.)

Fillyjonk, why don't you want him to go to school?

Oh god I NEVER do
when do I?
are you teasing me?

glad chewing it over is helping. I am feeling very vague and drifty about discipline right now so not any use for advice, but can listen

boys at around 4 apparently get a huge dose of testosterone (according to Steve Biddulph) It does seem to happen though that most boys get hyper and mad at @4.

Consistency
Tell him what the rules are (let him help you define the rules!!) and repeat and reinforce those often.
Structure (i know, I know, it doesn't come easy to lentil weavers, I had to make myself more structured)
Calm but firm
As much 'responsibility' as he can handle
Lots of time for him to be cuddled and 'babied' .
Pick your battles too.

One of my sons used to have horrendous meltdowns over tiny things. I used to tell him that I could not help him or listen to him when he was in that state and suggest when he was feeling 'better' (calmer) he should come and find me and we would talk. After a relatively short time, the tantrums got shorter, he would shuffle into my lap and say sorry for shouting and we'd talk.

I know it doesn't help much but you are describing a very normal four year old boy - I totally buy into the testosterone surge thing, I saw this with my ds at this age, he had his 'wild' times as you describe so well and had some momumental tantrums and ranting sessions.

Main thing I wanted to say is really don't worry about being clear and strong in your boundaries and consequences. This does not come easy to many of us and filly you sound very like me in that way - my natural way of dealing with ds was talking, explaining etc. And I hated, really hated imposing any form of sanction, it felt horrible to me...but luckily for me my dh had worked in a boys school for 14 years (and being a boy himself an' all!) and he told me VERY clearly once, really meaning it, that boys actually want and need and thrive on clear boundaries. They need to experience where the line is and then they can learn not to cross it in future.

He also said fairness is incredibly important to boys and that they need to see that everyone is being treated as much the same as possible. They can't yet see some subtleties in life.

So I guess I'm saying use what strategies you feel comfortable with, be strong with them and do not second guess yourself, your ds will thrive on your clarity.

I think your DH is right, there's nothing here that needs psychoanalysing, you don't need to get inside his head, you just need to firmly squash any thing he's doing that's unacceptable.

also I imagine it may be hard with 3 kids but I really do second swimming as a fantastic exercise for boys, it takes the tar out of them like nothing else!

YY the fairness thing is crucial IME!

(I am a talker and a rationliser with my 2, but I have had to adapt a little. We have family meetings but the boys are much more happy to discuss 'rules' etc when we have agreed them as a family rather than dh or I laying down 'the law')

if you think 4 is bad .. wait till the 7 threshold from innocence to burgeoning cynicism and boundary-pushing

lol, my monster 4-yr-old has embraced 7 with an unheard-of serenity, maturity and general gorgeousness!

However the one who was dreamlike at 4 was a hideous 7-r-old and is now a hormonal 10-yr-old.

o dear this thread is scaring me ! I have two dds, and a 9 mo old ds. I have always felt a bit smug when my friends who have boys the same age as my dds have behaved really badly while mine have been sweetness and light. So I've probably got all this to come with my ds then ? Are boys really that different ? I have 2 sisters and one brother who was a nightmare child. I thought it was just him being evil.

my 7 year old is rather gorgeous too .. but I am seeing 'flashes' of the teenager he may become

now my girl (who is 3.9) she scares me .. boys are far easier chankins .. far easier and more direct IMHO, no mental manipulation at all

DS1 might also be driving you mad Filly BECAUSE you have a new baby too? So you are more tired just as he is MORE active, and suddenly has less desire to please than ever before.

I don't know about boundaries. I think 4 y-o are discovering things in quite an interesting way and I also think - if my two ds's at 4 are anything to go by - less keen on pleasing you with their understanding of what you want. That's part of the discovery - you don't want me to swing on the door, I quite want to, what happens if I do swing on the door?

I'd lighten up on the 'reasoning'. It can go wrong because you don't get the answer you always want, and then it starts to stand like nagging.

Agree re consistency and clarity.

Not a lentil weaver but have a 5 and a hlf year old ds1 who has always been fairly active and 'hyper' when things are less structured than normal. ds2 (3) is similar but to a lesser extent. Things that have helped with ds1:

• tightening boundaries on what is/is not acceptable
• finding 'projects' for school holidays - eg ds1 has been saving cardboard boxes eyc for weeks in anticiaption of 'making a time machine' this week
• drawing up a 'plan' during the holidays. Sometimes we do it for a few days at a time, sometimes in the morning of that day. Sometimes it consists of 7am get up (wishful thinking!!) toilet breakfast half an hour of tv teeth dressed walk to shops with mum etc etc

he loves to go back to the plan at several points in the day and tick things off!

will think some more but think structure (even if it just writing a plan for the daily trivialities) helps

Oh and we do family council thing too FMV!

Though really as I am enlightened despot we go through the chatting, and then we all agree to add new rule that I have devised.

DS1 is good at these meetings he says things like 'I want it written down EXACTLY when I can go on the computer.'

Very savvy lad. DD is useless she says 'Let's talk about when we might go to Disneyland'.

Though all of them take it seriously, and are quite sane and sensible when asked too.

Ah yes, the key is to steer them towards what you want them get them to all think it was their idea....they're male, it's easy