best way to discipline a 22 month old....

[sannie]

Currently if my 22 month old is naughty, he gets a warning and then he is put into his cot for 2 minutes as a time out. This isn't working for us - he likes to go into his cot (to chew on it) and he has toys in there.....

Is it too young to start with a naughty corner or something like that? Really need to have him understand that he can't get away with constantly slamming doors and drawers which is driving me nuts and hitting his new baby brother..

thanks

If he's constantly slamming doors and drawers you need I think to get locks or child 'catches'. Ditto with hitting his baby brother, it's simply a matter of completely supervising - no child that age can be safely left with a newborn even for a minute.

I'm afraid this is a parenting issue more than a 'discipline' issue. The onus is not on your child to be disciplined but on you to a) supervise them and b) limit the availability of things they can do which you don't want them to.

If he is doing things you don't want, distraction is far, far better than starting a naughty corner. The NSPCC advice is that a child under two is behaving in a way that's about 'cause and effect' not about deliberately disobeying; even if that's how it feels at times.

If it helps at all, my ds and lots of boys I've known really do seem to have a fetish for opening and closing doors! Sometimes you could say yes perhaps - encourage him to do it gently...rather than trying to stop him which if he's like my ds will be like trying to push water uphill.

and I meant to say that I think time out CAN be useful but only if it's done as genuinely that; time out. If you want it to be a punishment that makes the child feel bad and learn that they won't ever do that again....you are hoping for WAY too much both of your child (too young) and the method.

If he's driving you mad, you have distracted until the cows come home and you really need to get away from him THEN is the time I think for one minute's time out as a genuine break for you.

dd is 22 months and have been using a naughty cushion since 18 mo. It works most of the time but if she won't stay on it we do put her in her cot for 2 mins (taking any toys out)
Agree with Honoria re cupboard locks, (although we have catches and dd will sometimes open and shut them that 5cm really fast (bang, bang, bang etc) until we take her away...)
Is typical behaviour I think though - hitting new baby brother could be a bit of jealousy too.
Good luck!

I think he's too little for discipline. Put locks on all the doors, and maybe get a playpen or something similar to put one of them in. Distraction and prevention rather than discipline at this age, or you will both get so frustrated and cross with each other it'll make things 10 times worse.

Agree with the above.

Time out is really only useful at this age to help them calm down if they're having a complete meltdown. Or, as Honoria suggests, if you are on the verge of complete meltdown.

But it's not going to make them stop in their tracks the next day and think 'hmmm, when I did this yesterday Mummy made me sit in the naughty corner'. They just haven't got the attention span or the ability to reason.

I found stairgates on one childsafe room to be the answer for us- that meant dd had a big playroom where I knew she couldn't get into much trouble. My parents used a playpen, but I think they had bigger playpens in those days, the one I bought was frustratingly tiny.

And I used a lock on baby brother's room to keep him safe from dd when I went to the loo. Even though she was 3 years old and understood the theory of not hurting people, I still didn't feel I should put the onus on her to remember it in practice.

he's still a baby himself. I know you are looking at your newborn, then your toddler, and your toddler seems huge and on occasion, malevolently violent, but thye truth is, he is just a large baby, with not much more sense than an eight month old.

Neurologically, he's not going to understand the things you want him to understand for years, so you'd be better to keep the newborn out of the older baby's way, lock the doors shut and get him a toy post box (or make one with a cardboard box) to post things in and with a door to get them out again.

As to him 'enjoying' his time in his cot, I am a bit sad at the implication that a child is only learning if they are crying.

He's too young for all of this. Having two under two is very very hard, but it's not the bigger baby's fault.

Sannie- I can completly sypathise with you having two so young. My ds was 17.5months when dd2 came along, and I had the smae problems as you.

If you have room, I found my playpen to be very useful if I had to pop out of the room, and still use it now my dd is 12months.

I found that no matter how vigilant I am, he still finds a way to sometimes hit her even when I am on top of them. I tried explaining to him why he shouldnt hit her so saying things like 'we dont hit. it hurts when you hit. Look she is sad and she is crying'. I know people say they dont understand but just because they cant verbalise their feelings doesnt mean they dont have any. If you talk about how he is feeling, it will help him understand those feelings of sad, happy, angry ect. Also explaining why what he is doing is making you cross. So 'Dont bang the doors because it is too noisy and makes mummy's head sore/might break them ect'

Now if he hits her deliberatly or pushes her, I time him out in the hall, but I dont do it for anything else. He is 2.6 now and is starting to understand feeling sorry for doing something imo. Also when he hits her now it is often because he is angry with her for touching his toys or something similar so it helps him calm down. I have been trying to teach him to come and tell me he needs help if she takes one of his toys and it is begining to work. Sometimes.

But it is so easy to think about how you want to do things when they are driving you mad. xxx

some good advice on this thread

I totally agree colditz, I'm always really sad when people say a strategy isn't working because the child enjoys it in their room/cot/time out zone. I think often it's more about the parent imposing a punishment to make themselves feel better rather than about the child actually learning - not saying this is you Sannie, just a general point.

Even a child who is happily playing in his cot for a minute's time out, is learning a good lesson; they've been stopped doing what they were doing and they are losing positive parental attention. That's ENOUGH and it will work when the child is ready to learn. They don't have to be upset to learn this.

can i just say what good advice there is on this thread... and how much i wish some of you could come here and stay for a week and help me learn how to put alot of it into practice... i also have close in age kids - 3 in 2 and a half years, the youngest is just over 2yo now - and sometimes i am just a bit overrun... and at my wits end wondering how on earth to get them to listen to me, or stop doing something, or start doing something... etc etc.

i have to say its good to hear that even if they dont seem to be bothered by a sanction placed on them, they are still learning. i didnt realise that... the feeling that whatever i do is utterly pointless is v difficult to handle (and triggers rapidly downward spiralling mood for me, and consequent rubbish parenting/no patience etc )

Snappy, I take my hat off to you as I think two or more children under five at home is just the hardest job in the world.

I do honestly think that it really helps to take away that feeling that if a child is happy (or seeming to be defiant and not care) when a sanction is imposed, that your sanction is not working.....I really do believe that these things can be effective. And I think if you're looking for a reaction (like tears or 'penitence') and don't get it, that is maddening and it only serves to increase your anger. If you simply impose the sanction and forget it and move on, you are much more able to feel calm and in control IMO.

And I think lots of people give themselves less room to manouevre by not being positive enough with young kids. If you keep talking to them and smiling at them, kissing them and telling them they're gorgeous (even when they are snotty exhausting little beggars) then you have strategy number one in your pocket, and that's withdrawing that positive stuff; honestly, with my ds a stern and serious LOOK can be enough of a sanction. If you're always stressed and shouting at them then you just don't give yourself that option and have to go straight for more formal stuff - harder work for you IMO!

a very good and valuable point honoria, and thank you for making it.

sometimes, its the simple things that work best... and can be hardest to see when youre under a bit of pressure... what i mean is, it sounds so bloody obvious when you say it like that! and it is... i shall do more lavishing from now on (not that i dont already, but perhaps with a little more conciousness of the power of it iyswim.)

really good point: HonoriaGlossop on Tue 12-Feb-08 13:14:42

thanks

Time out works if you stick with it and are consistent. I used to sit my daughter on the bottom step. It worked for us. But you need to encourage 'good' behaviours too by catching them doing the right thing. This seems tricky at first but soon becomes a habit. Positivity is contagious. smiles, winks and kind words work wonders.

Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated. Just to clarify, I never leave the two boys together alone. I am talking about my first born hitting his little brother whilst he is in my arms or resting in his chair.

sannie on Sun 17-Feb-08 15:20:44
"Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated. Just to clarify, I never leave the two boys together alone. I am talking about my first born hitting his little brother whilst he is in my arms or resting in his chair. "

Oh, I remember that. Dd did the same. In fact, I'm surprised ds has all his limbs intact. I never found any other answer than constant vigilance. And of course you say 'no' and lift them away (or move baby out of reach). If you keep it up, calm and firm, eventually he will stop. It's just that there isn't a magical method that can make him stop NOW, this instance. He's still only little. So keep watching for that glint in his eye.

HG, you put that beautifully.

I think a lot of parents feel they have to be "in charge" all the time and forget to show they like their children enough.

Yes we had the same. Most baby photos of DS seem to have some scram mark on his face from where DD attacked him while pretending to give him a cuddle(all done with me watching) we just kept telling her it was wrong and moving her away from the baby. She finaly left him alone when he was about 6 months and more interesting to play with than hurt.

Now however at 18 months he gets his own back on her

I never really disciplined mine at that age, more supervised and told them why what they were doing was wrong/dangerous etc. BUT I do remember DS2 biting DS1 a couple of times when he was just 2 - real bites, breaking skin! The first time we had a huge chat about how he shouldn't do it, look how upset and sad DS1 etc was. The second time (the next day) he did a HUGE chomp. DS1 was so hysterical I didn't have time to deal with DS2 so I said firmly "biting boys go to bed" and dumped him in his cot to tend to ds1.
By the time I came back up to him (10 mins later) - he was asleep! And stayed asleep to the morning (this was about 5pm). And he never did it again. A few times he sort of made as if he was going to, and then said "no bite, bed" and looked pleased with himself.

So it does go in a bit at that age if you to some form of discipline which is out of the ordinary. I'm sure none of mine would have mastered the concept of a naughty step or time out or anything though (and I never use the word naughty with them anyway - just don't like it).

and I've NEVER had 3 under 2! Hats off to you for still being sane. God, what a thought, I'd have locked them all under the stairs I expect

Cots should not be used for time out. If you do this on a regular basis you risk your child not wanting to go to sleep in it thinking he or she has been naughty.
Time out should be done somewhere else... for my dd now 25mths it is the hallway (gates on all doorways except living room and front door locked.). I tell her why she is there. When I get her out she says sorry mostly without prompting, but this depends on understanding, which she has.
I removed her from all toys and sat her on the settee from 18mths.
On a practical note try getting the rubber door stoppers that go on the door high up, to prevent trapped fingers.
Give lots of praise and pay special attention to good behaviour, as it sounds like attention seeking/jealousy of the baby. Try to get him involved with baby, getting things out for nappy change, washing in the bath, getting toys for baby etc. This may help to reduce his aggression towards the LO.

PS as a CM I have had 3 under 3 for the past year and 4 under 5 for the past 6mths

colditz and cory I completely disagree with you on the not understanding and applying it. I only have to say with 'the look' 'do you want to go in the hallway? Well stop that now' and the tantrum or bad behaviour stops 9 times out of 10.

I hate that idea of threatening little children with a hallway or something
I think you get a lot further with explanations rather than threats and punishments
Mind you my children don't stand to attention with a look from me (wouldn't want them to!) so perhaps my standards are lower

PrincessPeahead, my children get explanations first. Time out is something I use if they don't calm down after explanation. Also, most children under 22mths do not understand long winded explanations. They understand cause and effect i.e. if you do this then that will happen, so if you hit, bite or kick you end up alone in the hallway without a play mate.