in a dilema about unhappy toddler and playgroup

[vannah]

My mind is going around in circles. Any advice re: this situation:

DS is now nearly 2.5
His little sister was born 2 months ago and he is still very angry about it, though calmed down attacking her.
He was always a very clingy boy, but he is now so much worse since baby.

Ever since he was 18 months Ive been badgered by friends and family asking when he will go to nursery/playgrounp.
After posting on here I decide that given he is such a clingy child and still young, I should wait till he is four and not bother with anything other than parent/toddler groups and the park.

However, a few weeks ago I realised that he is very bored at home and needed structure, as he was whineging non stop and attacking DD all the time. Some of the parent toddler groups are really packed and hard to do both toddler and newborn.
So I took him to a playgroup with a view to stay for 1 month and then leave him there 2 mornings a week.
He loves it for the first hour, so busy and engrossed but keeps a watchful eye on me and is hysterical if I go to the toilet (weve been about 5 times now). Then he gets very miserable at the time they do structured routines -circle time/snack/story. I dont know if its because Im there or he is tired,
I asked the playgroup leader for her opionion she thinks he might not be ready.

Do I pull him out and save him the trauma (he says he doesnt want to go to playgroup) and keep him at home - despite all the activities he is bored after a while and gets me frequently cross, more aggressive to DD. ANd maybe try when he is 3.

Not sure what to do?
sorry this is long.

Could you afford to get a babysitter in to look after your newborn while you take DS to mother & toddler? I'm assuming you would paying for nursery/playgroup and not (or not much) for M&T, so that this might be a cost neutral solution?

My DS was exactly the same.

I stopped him going in the end and waited until a few months later.

However, my DS was moving to another Nursery when he was 3 so this influenced my decision as I felt I was putting him through all the crying et, just to move him again.

He was fine when he went when he was just over 3.

Now the weather is getting better, could you meet up with some other mums in the park (or soft play place) instead?
That way your DS gets exercise, and the chance to play with other children, with the knowledge that Mummy is there all the time too.

Something less formal might suit him just now.
Your HV may be able to put you in touch with other mums.

vannah, I think your ds is still trying to cope with the arrival of his baby sister, poor little man! My ds was 3 when his brother arrived, but still behaved about the same - they do need 'more' at that age but it requires quite a lot of patience! You've only been going a few weeks, I'd seriously keep on trying as anything new will still be a problem when he's 3. My ds spent 18 months anti-new anything, really hard to adapt to change.

If he's loving the first hour, just go for that and then leave when he gets unhappy. You might find that you can stay longer and longer as he gets used to it, but for now I'd go with him, he's obviously only able to cope for an hour. And most 2 1/2 year olds don't have that much of a concentration span anyway. For all of you, I think it's better/easier to have some structure of attending something than staying in the house getting fed up. And if things progress with the toddler group, you could try something else a bit further down the line, like a music group which would work for both your kids (I took mine when ds2 was 5 months and he loves it!) - your ds can join in as much or as little as he likes. He says he doesn't want to go to playgroup, but is enjoying it so I'd just make it part of your accepted routine and don't ask him if he wants to go just focus on the good bits about going. The structure will make him feel more secure in time (balancing insecurity from new sibling etc).

Not sure why your family friends are harassing you, none of their business as you're looking after him but there is a point at which they need more stimulation/contact with other children and sounds like your ds is there. I was most happy with ds at home just pootling but realised that he needed more after a while.

thanks everyone. Babysitting/child minding is pricey, the playgroup was v low budget.

sadly they wont allow him to leave early, I tried that on the first day when he and my newborn were crying simultaneously and got raised eyebrows from the playleader.
Might try to just do the park now weather is getting better,

I think you are doing sterling work vannah, it's a hard, hard time isn't it; your boy is needing more input and stimulation just when you have a newborn; but your ds is clearly not at the stage where he's ready to be left....

FWIW I think you're on the right tracks though, keep him with you, it's obviously what he needs MORE than he needs extra stimulation at the moment.

He will perhaps be much more ready when he's 3; my ds was, it worked that way for us. No way was he ready to be left anywhere before he was 3. And he was only just ready then!

Good luck

Just an idea - I know it isn't the same but have you thought about something like Tumbletots? You can leave your nb in pram/car seat (hopefully sleeping!) whilst your little boy gets active, gets your attention with a bit of social intermingling with other children. Then at 3+ they then start going in to class by themselves knowing parents sit outside and that might be just a gradual way of building up your little chap's independence.

I can't wait to have my baby and go to Tumbletots, I remember having the best time ever there!

Sometimes it's quite hard to find a toddler-group that is still suitable for children age 2+; it's sort of assumed that at that age they're all all packed off to nursery!

Makes me very annoyed, actually. Because it's hard to find a social outlet for children over 2 outside of preschool (which obviously, some aren't ready for preschool until 3+).
Indoor play centres sometimes fill the gap.

I know that you said toddler group is hard, but could you not try and go with someone who can look after the baby and you spend your time concentrating on DS.

I found that If I took DS2 in the pram he would sleep and I could spend one on one time with DS1.

I wouldnt be concerned regarding a playgroup. DS1 is nearly three and not been left at a playgroup. I do not think it is one size fits all.

We are going to go to nursery and he starts after his 3rd birthday.

COuld you look for alternative playgroups that are during the time DD sleeps. The CHildrens Information Service are great

thanks again everyone, so reassuring to read this. Was unable to log on yesterday.

Im going to look up tumbletots. I wonder if its like gymboree - went to a trial class a while ago but cost a staggering £9 for a 45 min session.
Thanks for the link madhouse.
Good to read all of your suggestions, I certainly dont feel bad about pulling him out of playgroup - have done it now.

or my local leisure centres do something called 'Jack in the box' which is music and jumping around and so forth, I know 2 2 1/2 year olds that love it! Can't believe Gymboree is £9!! Have you tried mumsnet local for classes/groups near you? or Netmums? I think that's how I found my music class. Or Mad Academy?

Tis pity they wouldn't let you leave when your ds had had enough, not v.flexible imo.

Taken off another site:

MEMBERSHIP
Each tumble tots class lasts for 45 minutes and there is a weekly session throughout term time. There is a fee for each session, which varies according to the location and type of class (I pay £4.40 per session for gymbabes) The weekly fees are payable on a half termly or termly basis and have to be paid up front. As far as I'm aware, if a session is missed, you do not get this money reimbursed.

You must also pay a yearly membership fee in order to attend the classes, which covers insurances. The membership fee is initially £20 and then £18.50 for subsequent years or siblings.

great thankyou both. looking up now...

TBH I think it is thr wrong time. It has come so close to the new baby coming that he may feel pushed out. I would wait. He doesn't need to start being without you at 2.5 imho.

Is it a play group where eventually you leave the child and go home? Raised eyebrows would put me off leaving my child there as it shows no empathy for the situation.

Vannah - a late reply, sounds like you've got all your answers now but your story is so similar to mine a year ago! I had a clingy 2.5 year old ds and a new daughter. Ds went to pre-school the term before he was 3 and it was a nightmare to get him settled, cried everytime for 5 weeks. He was still only talking in single words, and seemed frozen whilst he was there and stressed about having to adhere to their routines and structure. Then we had summer hols and he started talking in sentences . In Sept when he was 3.3 he went to a new nursery. So different! Only cried the 1st day!! So much can change in a few months so go with tumbletots etc. for now (and playgrounds when spring comes) and then try a different setting again when he's 3.

Our indoor soft play centre has an organised song and dance session each day for mums & toddlers. Perhaps worth seeing if there's something similar to that nearby?