4 year old - normal behaviour?

[Emilyh1986]

I have a beautiful and very funny 4 year old girl (5 in April). I have always thought there was something a little quirky about her, but have never managed to put my finger on it. After an issue this morning, where she poked my husband in the face and his automatic reaction was to shout very loudly at her; her reaction was so sad to see, it seemed to be a major trigger for her and made me realise that maybe I should investigate this further, mostly so that we can get a better understanding of how her little mind works and that things like shouting is the worst possible disciplinary action.

Here are her little quirks:
Struggles when things don't go as she expects. Very rigid in her expectations - easily throws a tantrum when things don't go as expected. This will happen throughout the day.
Can't settle well when staying over in a hotel or other location - not good with change. Struggles to settle in a new environment
Very wriggly - struggles to sit still
Very, very literal
Hugely logical for her age
Gets very easily frustrated
Has no speech issues - speaks very well.
Very clumsy
Went through a biting stage until age 3. Still likes to put things in her mouth.
I'd describe her as very sensory sensitive.
Quite destructive - has ruined many toys by drawing on them, biting them etc. even though she knows not to. She just can't seem to help herself.
Has been potty trained for ages but regressed by now weeing in her knickers (not a full wee but enough to be wet) doesn't bother her at all. Does it every day but nothing we try works.
Will make friends with anyone she meets.
Sensitive to sounds - often questions what various sounds are. Covers her ears when she hears sounds she doesn't like - e.g. radiator clicking, hand dryers, owl sound etc.
Asks questions but when they are answered she often doesn't listen and then asks the question again and again. She then gets very frustrated thinking we haven't answered the question.
Has tantrums very easily, gets upset and frustrated.
Shouts a lot.
Sucks her comforter to settle herself
Impossible to reason with her
Very sensitive to smells - often talks about smells and tells people they smell
Rigid expectations and dislike when things go differently to expected
Huge reluctance to try new things - even when it is things she will very clearly like.
Doing well at school. No concerns there, but they have been working on her understanding of emotions for a while now as she struggles with regulating her emotions.

I guess what i'm after, is other peoples opinions - does this all sound normal? Have you had a child with similar characteristics that has gone on to be diagnosed with autism, adhd etc.? or have you a child who grew out of this type of behaviour?

Your 4 year old is normal. Don't worry.

However your husband shouldn't be shouting at anyone, let alone a child.

I disagree (politely!) with the poster above.
While she may be what I would describe as a 'high needs' but neurotypical child,
I would also be looking for a referral to assess for autism.
I have four children (now adults) two have autism.
My son presented pretty typically and was diagnosed fairly quickly (he also has learning disabillities so was picked up early)
My daughter was very very similar to how you describe you daughter (with the addition that she was incredibly food restricted right from babyhood)
She was articulate, bright and rather difficult to live with!
Sensory issues,rigid in her behaviour and expectations and found change very difficult, but also very loving. Very logical too.

She was assessed at 6 for ADHD as school felt she was bright but couldn't keep her still long enough to teach her. She went on meds and improved immensely on that score. But she was still highly anxious, rigid, sensory. She wasn't diganosed as being on the spectrum until much later.

The good news is , being bright, articulate and single minded has been a bonus in many ways... she told me at 4 years old that she was going to be a doctor.
She's now a doctor... :)
However her life hasn't been easy.. she has battled anxiety and eating disorder. She now has therapists to help with both . She is amazing and adorable and an incredible, compassionate woman... but I DO wish she had had a diagnosis and support earlier so that we could have understood her better and helped her better. She still really struggles with change.

I think if you have concerns, push for assessment. Girls on the spectrum are often overlooked because they mask as they get older .But if she IS on the spectrum you a) know why she is how she is and b) can learn techniques to help , access support etc.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a thorough reply. I guess in my head I know this is not typical behaviour for a 4 year old and it certainly isn't subsiding as she gets older. I also have a 7 year old and they couldn't be more different - so that reassures us that it isn't our parenting that is the issue!

Some other things I missed out in my original post - her memory is incredible, never known anything like it! This causes issues in itself as she doesn't forget anything. She will get fixated on baking a cake for example, and will not forget it and will go on about it constantly and no amount of explaining why we can't do it that second helps deflect the situation. She has also always had this fascination with being a chef. Probably from just under 2. She absolutely loves baking and is really good at it!

Some examples of her way of thinking:
We went to TKMaxx for her to choose her Grandma a Christmas present. She picked up this odd angel ornament and decided that was perfect as her Grandma's name is Angel. She showed my husband and he questioned her choice, he said "But Elsie, it doesn't even have any wings" Her response: "But Daddy, Grandma is an Angel and she doesn't have wings, so it is perfect"

Went into the poundstore as she wanted some bath crayons.
"Mummy, where will they be?"
"I don't know Elsie, we just have to keep are eyes open and look out for them" "But Mummy, I don't know how to do that, I can't stop blinking"

Food wise - she is ok at eating but she changes her mind about what she likes constantly and if I chop her toast in the wrong shape, all hell breaks loose. I think at nursery they used to ask that she at least tried the food, so now when I say she hasn't eaten enough dinner yet she fixates on the words "But I tried" thinking that means she has had enough. Yesterday I said, you must eat 5 more pieces of chicken - she got one piece and broke it into 5! So cheeky, but her logic is incredible.

I love her way of thinking and she certainly is a character. It can just be a constant battle! My confusion over her behaviour in relation to autism etc. is that socially she seems fine - in fact she will talk to anyone, almost too friendly. Yet much of her behaviour does sound like autism. It is very confusing!

Both of my autistic kids (I call them kids because they will always be even though they are now 25+) have always been friendly... but indescriminately friendly. As small children while other kids would shie away from strangers, mine would go up and start talking to/at them... (well DS2 didn't as he was non verbal..he used to go sit on strangers laps if I wasn't careful!)
DD2 would talk to ANYONE and everyone.
Still does. They both do. But both lack a filter on topics... DD1's is easier because at least she talks about medicine , whereas DS2 monologues people on the life history of Shania Twain, and musicals . Both fail to notice their listener(victim!)'s eyes glaze over...

And yes..the logic. So hard to argue with their logic.
DD1 is also prone to catastrophising if things are not as expected or something goes wrong and needs a LOT of reassurance. Both have incredible memories. We knew DD1 had but had no idea that DS2..non verbal til 5, barely verbal til he was 9... had a virtually photographic memory. His knowledge of stuff he reads on Wikipedia is INCREDIBLE. Can't shave himself, or make a simple dinner still, but boy can he quote anything he's read.

It's fascinating, objectively but frustrating at times to live with.
My other two were typical kids and now typical adults, so it wasn't us !!!