10 week old crying all day - is this normal?

[lilipup]

I know this topic has been covered lots in other threads which I've read, but I wondered if anyone has had a similar experience to us specifically. Our 10 week old breastfed baby girl cries most of the time she is awake. From birth she has been high need, not wanting to be put down, and it took weeks to get her to sleep peacefully on her back. She is very windy, so we've put it down to colic. She's particularly distressed when passing wind at the bottom end. But I really wonder if it is just wind - at times, she is contorted with pain, arms and legs jutting out, whole body taut. She is not sick much at all, possets only a little occasionally, but I've read about silent reflux, and wondering if that is what is up, as I've heard her swallowing quite a bit sometimes. We;ve tried everything - colief, gaviscon, infacol, colicynth, other homeopathic stuff, massaging tummy, pushing her legs up, tiger in the tree hold etc. At this point, even cudding her on a shoulder doesn't stop the crying anymore. I've given up eating lots of foods, dairy, chocolate, caffeine, oranges,but that doesn't seem to be working either. She sleeps really well at night though, only waking up once or twice. Any advice? My local doctors/HVs don't have much to say on it. My mother keeps going on about changing her to formula, but I think this will only make it worse. Any advice gratefully received.

lilipup, oh you do have my sympathies...my 3. ds was a constant screamer and nearly drove me demented....
Even as a Toddler he was high need and over sensitive. Now he seems to grow out of it more and more (he is 3.5 years old)...

It could be silent reflux, but I suppose Gaviscon would usually help with that, as would keeping Baby upright as much as possible. For instance by putting phonebooks under the top-end feet of the cot, to raise the head-end a bit...

Have you tried carrying your little one in a Sling...some Baby just need more reassurance than others.

oh dear, what a nightmare.

Have you considered taking LO to a cranial osteopath? Helped friends of mine with a similar-sounding baby.

ps. ignore your mother!

Could she be getting over tired if she isn't sleeping much in the day?

Since the crying is driving you mad I would suggest putting her down for naps at regular times in a darkened room and leave for a short period. She may go to sleep or at least give you 15mins to have a drink and recollect your thoughts. My dd was like this at 6wks, we did the above and found that she started sleeping at regular times, so when she was awake she was really content. Just a suggestion. It will not harm her for a short time. Some babies don't like constant cuddling and fussing and can get over stimulated which makes it hard for them to relax and go to sleep.

Thanks so much for the quick responses. Yes, I've tried carrying her in a sling, but she doesn't like it so much around the house - OK outside when we go for long walks in a baby carrier on my front, she falls fast asleep. I think the point about over stimulation could be a good one - sometimes I think she does get a bit overwhelmed, as could have a very sensitive nature. I think its more than that though, as she always gets very fussy about 10-15 mins after a feed, which makes me think it must be feed-related somehow - although at the moment, she is fussy all day, with regular inconsolable crying/screaming fits. She did have a long nap (hour and a half) this morning, and still very fussy since. Not sure if I should be going back to the doctor to push for a medical explanation, or just wait it out for another few weeks to see if it fades away. And yes, does drive me mad, especially when I have a 2 year old to deal with as well.

Lilipup my little boy (now 4 months) cried pretty much all the time at 10 weeks (still cries a fair bit now but not as much ). I tried one-sided b/fing, which seemed to help with the discomfort associated with feeding. It might be worth you posting on the B/Fing thread and seeing if one of the experts there can maybe help you a bit more HTH

it does sound like silent reflux. try feeding less quantity and a bit more often. a very full tummy can give loads of reflux. if you feed more often you wash it down a bit more and the stomach acid is not sitting in the esophagus irritating for so long. it does sound like your lo esophagus is very inflamed and you may need more than infant gaviscon for a short while.

other than that it could be bad colic but you would need to check the symptoms a bit more on that one.

My DS was exactly like this and a cranial osteopath worked wonders. Had been really cynical about them before but took him out of sheer desperation - then wished I'd done it sooner! Hope you are getting some good help and support - it can be really exhausting and upsetting looking after a baby that's like this.

thanks snotbuster - i looked out a few numbers of osteopaths last night, so will try to get an appointment soon, as want to do anything to get this all to stop soon! i;ve posted on the breastfeeding thread too, as suggested by weeglenny, and some really helpful advice there too on possible dairy intolerance. its just a nightmare not knowing what is up with her, and the constant fear that there might be something medically wrong that could be sorted if we could only find out what it is.

you must be knackered - my DS was the same when passing wind from the bottom end - he used to scream out in pain - it was reflux - I got referred to a consultant who gave him some medication and he became a different baby. At 6 months he grew out of it once I starte to wean him. Don't give up - I remember being so frustrated because the feeding just made him worse - as suggested - keep upright and put in rocker were possible after feeding to let the milk go down. Good Luck. Cranial also pinpoints other things that you maynot have thought of, so worth a go. If you have private healthcare, check with them, because Bupa pay for Cranial, as long as the individual therapist is registere and they have to have been practicing for a while before they get the recognition, so they will have seen most

I have just remembered a friend of mines breastfed dd cried a lot and it was because she was still hungry. She topped up her breast feeds with some formula and she became a different baby

Hmmm, just in "response" to Fiona...whilst I am sure your heart was in the right place...but Formula is not the magic answer (and obviously op already has her MIL in her ear about Formula)...if a breastfed Baby is still hungry, you simply latch them back on for more...the more you feed the more you produce...
Formula can, however, seem like the quick fix, because, it's harder to digest and therefore stays longer in Baby's tummy...but really an hungry Baby needs more calories, not bulking food...

My dd was exactly the same (though she was sick a lot too), and I know this isn't what you want to hear, but time was the only healer. Her colic literally stopped the day she turn 14 weeks and I was amazed by the lovely smiley baby that emerged!
I worried so much about how the way she'd arch her back, go purple in the face, rigid limbs - she just seemed so unhappy and in pain.
Things that helped were: seeing a chiroprator, having a calming bedtime routine - she loved the bath, and, as someone has said, feeding her little and often - offer her the breast all the time during the day, but don't push it if she doesn't want it. (imho a bottle and topping up with formula is a very bad idea). Also, getting her to have a decent sleep by any means possible - pushchair worked best for us.
Re crying, if you're feeling like you can't cope, put her somewhere safe like in her cot, go out of earshot and spending ten mins breathing deeply - if she's crying when she's with you anyway, it makes no difference to her and it'll make you calmer and better at dealing with her.
Another top tip is to use white noise. When our dd was crying too much to latch on, we'd blast the hairdryer near her and it worked a treat. With my ds (a bit windy and very sensitive so he used to get really overstimulated and couldn't switch off) I used to put him in the sling and hoover the house! I also found they'd both sleep in their pushchairs somewhere noisy - my dd would sleep right through toddler group. You could try a busy cafe?
There's an amazing book you could have a look at by Dr Harvey Karp called Baby Bliss.
Well done for getting her to sleep on her back - it's something you never think would be a problem before you have a baby! And hold on in there - I reckon you've only got a couple of weeks of this to go.
My dd is 4 months today and a gorgeous little smiler! Looking back, those first weeks were dark days!

splendid, your advice has really lifted me phlossie, and thanks for all advice. dd has actually been much more settled since about 48 hours after our cranial ost session last week, although had a few nasty bouts of crying and wind today again. i'm hoping we are starting to get over the worst of it and suspect her colicky bouts might lessen gradually - a sudden stop would be nice too! its been amazing having her settled quite often over the past week, smiling and cooing, really feel like i'm getting to know her better and our bond is improving, and i've even been able to put her in the pram, propped up, watching me cook the dinner - sounds like a little thing, but impossible until now to do basic things like that!

My ds sounds very similar to this (he is nearly 12 weeks old.) He's always been a crier but things that used to keep him happy eg kicking on his changing mat, being carried on my shoulder just don't any more. There just doesn't seem to be any amount of time when he's awake and happy. It also seems to be worse after feeds and I was putting it down to reflux because although he wasn't being sick a lot he would belch and bring up obviously nasty tasting mucusy sick which made him cry (sometimes choke and cough too). I did the whole sitting up thing for 30 minutes after feeding but this almost seened to make things worse. I have tried gaviscon but I can't get him to take it on a spoon or in a bottle. However, I've had a new theory today that I think he is actually just getting tired really quickly. This morning he was up for just an hour before starting to grizzle and cry (He had slept really well in the night too going from 8 pm until 4.30am and then 5am til 7.30am). I put him in his cot with the mobile on because I had to get dressed and he fell asleep almost straight away. I think the sitting up and winding was almost confounding the problem. Don't know whether your lo is the same but it might help to try putting her to sleep somewhere quiet and seeing if that is the problem.

have you tried chamomile or fennel tea. it helped my ds' colic loads.

You might also want to ask for a referral to a paediatric gastroenterologist - helped amazingly with our v similar baby (Gaviscon didn't work, but what he prescribed- RAnitidine - did).

lateasusual, coincidentally, i too have had a very similar thought this week about my lo, that she gets tired quite quickly. i start to see her getting tired about hour and half after last nap, so this week have been trying to get her into a pattern of naps, and watching out for when she is getting sleepy. think it is helping a bit, plus i think she is becoming a bit more settled in general (12 weeks old tomorrow). still something bothering her though, as crying bouts haven't gone away, but less frequent now. i couldn't get her to take gaviscon either - figured the amount of screaning she did when i tried to give it to her were making matters worse, gulping in loads of air. might go back to the doc again in a couple of weeks if she is still having same problems, and ask for a referral as naturopath suggests.

Hi lilipup,
Don't know about you but I'm finding lo very hard at the moment - I never seem to get to the bottom of his crying. I have been continuing to try letting him nap which does seem to help but he usually wakes up crying and the cycle continues. Trouble is I find it difficult to decide when to try feeding again because he cries so much including after a feed and there doesn't seem to be much variation in the type of crying. When he was little he used to make it very obvious that he was hungry because he used to root and headbut me lots but now he doesn't show any obvious signs. He also sucks all the time and so I can't even do the finger in the mouth trick. Because he is also sick a fair bit I can also persuade myself that he could still be hungry shortly after feeding so I will often try him again - he very rarely refuses to feed but will be very fussy coming off a lot and then trying to reattatch. I then worry that he is hungry but that somehow he is in pain which is stopping him continuing to eat. It's a bit of a nightmare!!

Does your lo smile much? Mine doesn't ever seem to be happy so I rarely get smiles. Very worried at the moment!!

hi lateasusual. your lo sounds uncannily like mine - i thought she was coming out of it over the past week or so, but still has very grumpy periods, like today e.g. - only had about 3 vaguely settled periods, all lasting very short periods of time, then rest of the time, fussing, grumbling, several times the only thing that stopped her crying was just falling asleep on my shoulder. tried to get her to nap today, but she wasn't having any of it - fed her to sleep sevearl times only for her to wake up within a minute or so of me leaving her! my lo does exactly what you describe, and i've found it hard to know when she's hungry too, sometimes she refuses still if she is too upset to feed. and yes, i have that constant worry too that something is wrong somewhere, but there is nothing i can do about it, as doctor's not bothered about her. think if she is still this cranky by about 14 weeks, will take her back and ask for a referral of some sort. she's not sick, but does posset quite a bit, so i still wonder if she has perhaps silent reflux. she has been going through a period of mad sucking recently - sucking hands, and then wanting to just stay attached for ages, just sucking but not actually feeding (think this is why she didn't nap well today, kept waking up and looking for me!). unlike your lo though, she does refuse to feed if she's resolutely not hungry, so i try to keep at least an hour between offering her food, as if i offer her my breast and she's not hungry, she goes ballistic! i use breastfeeding to get her to sleep loads, not the best idea i know, but it comforts me at any rate to know i have at least one trick up my sleeve to settle her. completely sympathise about the misery thing - today i've started wondering if she is just a very grumpy personality, as she just seems to get grumpy really easily with everything - i merely lifted her out of her buggy today to sit with her and dd1 to read a story, and that was her crying for about an hour until fell asleep on my shoulder. however, i do get lovely smiles during her settled periods, and little squeaks etc. and i should say, that hand on heart, i think she is getting a bit better - at the 8/9 week mark, she was literally crying most of the time she was awake, inconsolably so, but at least now, she has a few settled periods most days. i find sitting with her on a rocking chair often does the trick of settling her, and she seems to like being wheeled around the house in her pram, propped up so she can see around. i;ve tried the sling thing as big fan of baby carrying - but she doesn't really like it much at all! very particular little madam! chin up though - my doc reckoned 11 weeks was still in the midst of colicky time, so i'm holding out for improvements over the next few weeks - and if not significant improvements, then really must be something wrong medically somewhere.

lilipup, your dd sounds just like my ds when he was that age (now 18 months). Nobody ever seemed to believe us when we said he cried most of the day... they thought we were exaggerating. Also he was putting on loads of weight as he was CONSTANTLY on the breast, even though he would often come off to cry for a bit, so HVs weren't worried about him. We took him to the docs several times, and to casualty one hair-tearing day when he cried solidly for so many hours that dh and I were both reduced to tears [shudders to remember]. He was examined and poked and prodded and declared 'just massively grumpy' by a paediatrician, which was half a relief and half awful as I had hoped we could do something about it! At one point I simply could not remember what he looked like when he wasn't crying, and I could hear him crying in my head even when he wasn't...

Anyway this went on for 12 weeks, at which point I finally found info on silent reflux on the web, which seemed to fit his symptoms perfectly. After a lot of fobbing off by GPs we demanded a private referral, got one, and finally had the diagnosis that ds did indeed have silent reflux. The consultant said that excessive crying AFTER 12 weeks, even when not accompanied by other obvious symptoms, is more likely than not to be due to reflux problems of some kind. He put ds on ranitidine and we had a different baby overnight - it was incredible. Ds's symptoms (apart from the crying) included: hating being laid flat, fighting breastfeeding and breaking off to cry, sour-smelling breath, coughing/gagging even when he hadn't had a feed for a while.

I would encourage you to get arsey if need be and ask for a gastroenterologist referral. You can't lose anything.

And finally to encourage you that how she is now will not last: when ds started with a childminder when he was 11 months old, after a while she said to me 'He just never cries, does he!' My face:

Lilipup and ladymixalot, I have just been reading about your babies with a mixture of feelings: I'm sorry it's been/is tough for you..but I am also relieved that someone else has a babe like mine!
Mine is 16 weeks old and has always been a really hard-work baby..very sensitive..ie cries if you put him down, (would only fall asleep on my chest for the first 12 weeks, and only after much crying) needs constant movement..screams if someone he doesn't know says hello to him (!)..etc
He always cried a lot, had really bad colic (better at around 12 weeks) and at 8 weeks became almost impossible to feed, and has remained so. He fusses at the breast, coughs, gags and frequently comes off screaming (nice)..he surely must be in pain..but all symptoms have been dismissed as normal by midwives, HVs and docs.
Having read your posts, I've got a doctors appt next week and will ask for a gastroenterologist referral too.
THANK YOU and good luck!

Ladymixalot - how is ranitidine administered? I definitely think my lo is suffering from silent reflux (he cries like he is in pain and it seems to be getting worse.) Doctor prescribed gaviscon but 1. I find it really difficult to find time to make it up because ds is crying all the time and it has to be made up in a sterilised container with a sterilised spoon, with boiled but cooled water (so have to have remembered to put the kettle on) and just before a feed. 2. Can't get ds to take it either on a spoon or in a bottle. I thought about expressing milk and mixing that with the gaviscon but again similar time issues.

KathCork - I have really similar experience with the breast feeding - it's really distressing isn't it. I hate to think that lo is associating feeding with pain.

p.s. do any of you find the time to go out?? My lo isn't too bad in pushchair but screams his head off if I try to put him in his car seat. My husband says I'm too soft and I should just let him cry so that I can get out but I can't bear it so more often than not take him back out the car seat and resign myself to staying in.

lateasusual - we were given a syringe to administer it. The dose had to be pretty exact and a spoon wasn't accurate enough. Wasn't too much of a problem getting it down him once he got used to it, although the first time he tasted it, his face was a picture. Apparently it is really, really foul.

Lateasusual,

I don't know how much longer I can keep going with the breastfeeding, it is like a fight with him! The only time he feeds well is at night when he's all sleepy..the day is just horrific, he kicks and punches me, and yes, it is really upsetting. As a mum it's the one thing I think I should be able to do to comfort him/calm him/nourish him etc etc..but it is the thing that makes him the most distressed! Great.

Going out is a struggle yes, he screams his head off whether it's the pram or car-seat..but stops once there is movement! In the car that has to be over 20mph though or the screaming starts again..have you tried driving reeeeally fast with yours??!

ladymixalot, very useful advice, and after reading your lo's symptoms, all very similar to mine, went to the doctor and asked for a referral. we've private healthcare so hopefully can get something quickly, although unenthusiastic doctor mittered something about paediatrician and it taking a few weeks - so think i'll just phone the hosp myself and try to get an appt with the right person. having said all that, lo much better form all of today, almost the perfect baby, smiling, sitting settled watching things and playing with a few toys - so, even more frustrated that she's not like this all the time, although could be a sign she is getting over whatever she has gradually. i can't get her to take gaviscon either, and thought it as making her constipated too, so gave up after a day.

very bizarre about the car seat thing - my lo is exactly the same, i dread going out in the car with her. she usually stops crying eventually, but as kathcork says, after some speed and constant driving for a while - so all the temp traffic lights around us at the mo drives me mad! think its important to get out and about though, for sanity - lateasusual, is public transport an option for you? i go on the train to local city every thursday to the baby and mum piccies, and much better than driving with her screaming the whole way, as she loves being carried in baby carrier (falls instantly asleep), and can feed her on train etc if she wakes up stroppy.

also, my dd1, who's now 2, was a struggle to feed as i recall - i went through periods of wondering what was up with her when she was fussing at the breast, pulling off crying etc, although generally she was a very placid baby (which is why dd2 is such a shocker!) - i do remember it passed eventually though, i think possibly after about 3/4 months old, and bfing was thereafter a breeze, and kept it going until about 9 months (feeding just in morning and evening)