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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Mixing breast feeding and formula

22 replies

custard1 · 20/01/2008 20:51

When I BF my 8 week old she still seems hungry afterwards. I have been topping her up with expressed milk and she is drinking 90ml on top of BF! I can't express enough to satisfy her all the time. Can I BF and then top her up with formula. If i can, how do I go about it? Shall I introduce it gradually?

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 20/01/2008 20:57

You could top her up with formula. Although if you feed on demand your supply will increase and there will be no need to 'top up'. So, there isnt a need to top up, as such. Although it is always a worry to us new mums when b/feeding that they are getting enough - especially when you cant measure exactly how much they are getting .

Babies also go through regular growth spurts and want to feed more often. This in turn, will increase your supply and things will settle down a bit. I also feel I should point out that mix-feeding can undermine your supply of breastmilk.

With all that in mind, if you want to mix feed anyway, you can try giving 1-2oz of formula at the end of each feed and see how it goes? If she takes it then fine. If not, then clearly she has had enough.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 20/01/2008 20:58

Perhaps you could just b/feed her instead of expressing? They are much better at getting milk out than any breastpump

ruddynorah · 20/01/2008 21:00

if she still seems hungry i would just put her back to the breast or offer the other breast. the more she feeds the more you make.

tori32 · 20/01/2008 21:04

You can do that, however, I found the same sort of thing with dd and started topping up with formula. My supply quickly decreased even further and I ended up just formula feeding. She may take the milk from a bottle quickly as well because it takes a lot less effort. She may be becoming quite lazy at suckling which is what happened with my dd.

If you definately want to carry on bf then seek further advice from Tiktok or similar. They might be able to give better advice on how to increase your supply rather than compensate with formula.
If you are not too bothered about giving up bf then I can say that as soon as I started topping up, my dd slept from 7-7 with a ff at 2230. Because it takes longer to digest it stays in the stomach longer and baby goes longer between feeds.

onepieceoflollipop · 20/01/2008 21:05

custard1 I top my dd2 (5 months) up with ebm. I express every morning consistently as if I don't express regularly I don't produce enough to express iyswim.

Personally I think that it is more for me psychologically as it feels a "sensible" thing to do - i.e. top her up for the night. I don't think it makes a massive difference, although it means dp can give her a feed.

She can drink 4-5 oz no problem and then have one breast. However, I suspect she finds it a lot easier to get it out of the bottle and asks for more as she has drunk it so fast that her tummy doesn't register that she is full. I also worry that even at this older age she shows signs occasionally of preferring the bottle and this can of course undermine b/feeding.

Lots of people inc possibly your hv will advise mixed feeding and topping up at night but as VVV says if you feed on demand your supply will increase. Lots of the advice on offer can undermine b/feeding and play on your worries that baby may not be getting enough and/or is not sleeping well because of hunger. Lots of mums on here will tell you they abandoned b/f at night and instead are up 3 times making up bottles. That alone has made me decide to keep on b/feeding at night, but of course that may not be the right decision for you.

Original poster

custard1 · 20/01/2008 21:08

She just seems really frustrated when she is BF at the minute, especially in the evenings and cries after she has fed on both breasts. She is probably getting enough, however is a big girl weeks - 13lb 7 and seems to eat a lot. My breats are full in the morning which is why I express cos they still hurt after she has fed, however by the evening she seems frustrated?! It just seems that she is not satisfied. It's all a bit confusing

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 20/01/2008 21:13

Can I just point out - in response to Tori32's post about sleeping through the night - my DD was sleeping 7 till 7 with no dream feed (and she was excl b/fed) from 11 weeks so formula is no magic sleep cure. DS - ditto excl b/fed and didnt sleep through until 10.5 months.

The fussing could be wind if she is bobbing back on and off again. Or, you could have quite a fast let down which could cause her to have wind. Might be worth doing regular winding? For as long as she is suckling - there will be milk. It just might get more difficult later in the feed and require more work for her.

It's hard to see them distressed, but I think if you persevere and feed on demand, things will settle down very soon

ruddynorah · 20/01/2008 21:19

it's normal for them to fuss in the evening and what's known as cluster feeding..basically lots of feeds in quick succession.

MadamePlatypus · 20/01/2008 21:22

This might be not what you want to hear, but I didn't find that BF settled into a 'routine' until about 3- 4 months. DS just wanted to feed and feed and feed. DD was a bit colicky and wanted to suckle but didn't always want to feed so at 8 weeks she had a dummy if breast feeding wasn't soothing her.

I think it is almost impossible to tell how much milk you are producing - I didn't really express at all for DD as if I wasn't feeding her myself I was looking after DS, and the few times I tried I felt it was a huge faff for not much result and it was easier just to feed her directly.

Anyway, I think my point is that from what you are saying I would have absolute confidence that you are producing enough milk and I would just snuggle up and feed her for as long as she wants. If she is uncomfortable after this, I would guess that she might be tired, or have reflux or a little colic. I can't really advise on these, but for the 0-4 month period, I did find Harvey Karp (happiest baby on the block) helpful.

Hope this hasn't been too rambly and has been a little helpful!

imnot27 · 20/01/2008 21:30

All 3 of mine were BF with a top up of formula in the evening. I know it can disrupt BF, but it did work for me. I think that my supply just lessened throughout the day (as I got more knackered ) so by evening the milk was a bit thinner or something. My dh gave them a bottle at bedtime, which was lovely for him too, and I continued Bf to 6 months when I gave up cos I wanted to!

tori32 · 20/01/2008 21:33

VVV I completely agree that ff is not a gauranteed help to sleeping through. I only said that it was my personal experience and did with my dd.

clu · 20/01/2008 21:39

I think it all comes down to what makes you and therefore Lo happy. I top up with formula and it has enabled me to continue BF. I see how much my dd loves BF but I could not cope with her needs and giving her a bit of formula works excellent for us. I give her aptimal, tried cow and gate comfort but made her very smelly farts. But formula really does depend on the LO they all like different.

Original poster

custard1 · 20/01/2008 21:40

Thank you all. That has really helped. I will carry on the way I have been I think. She is a really good girl and to be fair generally eats well throughout the day and sleeps for 3/4 hours at night, so she can't be that hungry! I just don't like seeing her distressed and worry that it's because I am not producing enough, but logic says I am.

OP posts:

onepieceoflollipop · 20/01/2008 21:46

Sounds like you are doing really well in these early dizzy weeks. My dd has just in the last month or so started to settle better in the evenings - still exc b/fed. The first 3-4 months are really hard.

Some of the advice you get plays on your worries, some is just amusing. A friend told me today that her hv had said that Mars Bars help with supply (honestly, a health professional told her that). Well, clearly that is nonsense, but if eating one or more relaxes you, then it can't be a bad thing! Can't see how they would specifically boost milk production though.

Pannacotta · 20/01/2008 21:48

As another poster said. it could be wind bothering her, or it could just be that she is tired and thats why she is fussing.

DS1 would always cry lots in the evening until he was about 3 months old and then suddenly he was much easier. He was excl breastfed and a big baby. DS2 was similar. I just fed them both as much as they wanted in the evenings - parked my backside on the sofa in front of the TV. It does settle down soon.
There is some good info here too
www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html

Original poster

custard1 · 20/01/2008 21:49

LOL - I love Mars Bars so I will eat them whatever, just gives me an excuse to eat even more!

Thanx, you are very kind and now I am feeling v.positive and feel that we are doing very well.

OP posts:

MadamePlatypus · 20/01/2008 21:51

Mars Bars help supply? What rubbish. Surely everybody knows that its those 'rocky road' chocolatey things they sell in Starbucks that boost your supply?

onepieceoflollipop · 20/01/2008 21:51

Oh but custard another "expert" will tell you that the chocolate will give the baby wind...(it didn't seem to affect my dds - luckily - and I ate the equivalent of a large bar of galaxy every night for weeks, now I have a glass on wine some nights so chocolate consumption is down marginally)

onepieceoflollipop · 20/01/2008 21:52

glass of wine

VeniVidiVickiQV · 20/01/2008 21:52

Ooh yes - I forgot about cluster feeding! They do have a tendency to do that.

I do know that changing feeding method or routine can appear to work with some babies Tori32. I just wanted it to be clear to the OP that mix-feeding wont necessarily get her lo to sleep through the night, and that it is most likely a baby will start to sleep through of its own accord, when it's ready. Unfortunately, for some it takes many moons . Luckily, for others - its almost straight away

VeniVidiVickiQV · 20/01/2008 21:54

I think the idea is that you need more calories (or more accurately use more if you are a tubby like me) when you are b/feeding.

Your body will produce enough milk with or without the mars bar. But a bit of what you fancy does you good

blisscake · 20/01/2008 21:56

Top up feeds were the beginning of the end of bfing for me. I didn't really realise it at the time but by topping up, my supply didn't keep up with ds's demand and eventually we shifted on to the bottle.

I didn't really choose to stop bfing is just sort of happened by accident as a result of top-ups. Ds would bf then fuss, we'd top him up and he'd be content. I realise now that the other option would be to persevere and let him fuss but only offer the breast in order to boost supply.

With ds3 I chose to drop specific feeds as opposed to topping up after each feed and this meant I was able to bf longer. I introduced a bottle feed in the evening as this seemed to be the fussiest feed and like imnot fed as long as I wanted to.

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