situation with ds now desperate - please help if you can!

[cariboo]

I thought if anyone can help, MN can so here is an excerpt of a message I just posted to my sister, who's also a teacher:

"X is a real worry. His "behavioral issues" started up again with a venegence once he got back to school. On Friday he hit his beloved friend Vicky and pushed some other little girls down. He shouted at his teacher & wouldn't share the classroom toy garage. His teacher is sympathetic - I have the impression she really loves X - but she said she's tried all the various disciplinary techniques that she knows, both as a teacher & a mother and nothing works with him. She told me she needs some outside professional support because she can't cope with X and the 19 other 4 yr olds in her class. I'm desperately worried now. I've spoken to several pedopsychiatrists in the area & they are fully booked for months."

Does anyone have any advice? Thanks. I'm frightened, tbh.

i'm sorry to report that things are going from bad to worse. Dh & I saw the pedopsy 2 weeks ago, who then asked to see ds for 2 sessions (the 2nd one is today) & then dh & I are to see her again next week for her diagnosis/opinion/whatever. I don't know what is happening between ds & the doc but I suppose all will be revealed.

Meanwhile, dd is behaving like a spoilt little brat (not difficult to see why as her pesky little brother is getting most of the attention as usual) but the worst is dh.

He's always angry. He shouts at the children & when not shouting, he radiates disapproval & misery. Mealtimes are a nightmare, with the dc refusing to eat, dh maintaining a morose silence, interrupted by the occasional bark at the children to "get on with your dinner" or "no, you can't have any more milk". I hate the evening meal. The weekends are also pretty hellish.

Last night dh & I had a massive row. I left home & went to stay at my mum's flat (she's away). We've been discussing divorce on & off when things get rough but now I think this might be it.

Did anyone read India Knight's column on Sunday? She described my situation to a T. It's been gnawing at me since I read it. I have to talk to you all because I could never tell my RL friends about all of this. My closest friend's mother is in the last stages of Alzheimer's & I can't possibly burden her with my problems. What in god's name shall I do?

Hope the appointment goes well today. I haven't read the column, will go look for it after replying.

I went through something similar last year - DS2 with developmental experts/SALT and a break-up at the same time. The real difficulty is that things get so intertwined that nothing is obvious. Was DS2's behaviour a result of the tension at home or a deeper underlying problem?

Can you separate all the issues? Relationship-wise, is there any hope? Would Relate or similar help? The DCs will play up - it doesn't help knowing this mid-melt-down but overall, shows they are expressing themselves - much better than repression, if noisier and more wearying .

Is having space at your Mum's clarifying anything? Do talk to friends RL, too; you'll be amazed how supportive they can be.

I think try to make sure you don't make any big decisions right now. You said in an earlier post that inconsistent parenting is a real problem particularly with your DH; you have to accept that LOTS of problems with behaviour come with that so these issues with your ds are really not surprising, particularly in light of how miserable it sounds to be a child in your house right now not to mention how awful it must be for you, too.

I agree with 1066 that, while all these issues feed into eachother, it is necessary to seperate things out and deal with them distinctly - agree with relate or similar, it's got to be worth a go.

I'm so, so sad to read that description of mealtimes in your house, I just want to hug you all - how awful that life needs to be like that when you could all be each other's biggest fans Family life is hard but it doesn't need to be that way all the time.

I honestly think the relationship is what you need to focus on; until you and your dh are a bit happier and present a more united front to the kids then I think it's hard for your kids to make progress behaviourally.

But I'm so sure it can be done. Good luck.

I hope today went as well as possible.

Please excuse my stream of irrelevance but...

My DH CANNOT cope with the fact our DS has severe SN (although I am NOT saying that your son has) as I read on an unrelated thread - they are not like us

What time is your evening meal? Do the family have to eat together? My DH doesn't return until late so the children eat earlier as they wouldn't cope with waiting.

Are your DS' outbursts at school linked to hunger? A good friends DS has Aspergers (again, not saying this is the case for you) And he had to give a complex carb every break to stop him getting tricky.

My Ds is is also at an Independent school, I currently pay for him to have a one to one (yes, on top of fees) so that he can stay within a mainstream environment although his current school do not mind if his 121 is not there sometimes. At his last school (where my DD goes) they will not take children with any behavioural or learning difficulties without a 121.

It is much more difficult to get a statement in a school which insists you pa for a learning support assistant (to give the correct title) and when they do assessment they just tick to 'all needs being met' box (yes because I'm forking out for it you plonkers)

I don't think he sounds jealous, he would be shouting at people approaching the beloved teacher, surely, rather than at the teacher? And pushing his sister at home when she took your time?

(As for DD playing up because DS gets lots of attention, tell me about it I have a 8yr old dd also)

How is his communication? Is the pushing about frustration due to not having the vocab to express his feelings? How is he at sharing? Does he share well at home?

You say he went to pre school from 3 how was his behaviour then?

If all this is in another thread just point me there...

"...but the worst is dh.

He's always angry. He shouts at the children & when not shouting, he radiates disapproval & misery. Mealtimes are a nightmare, with the dc refusing to eat, dh maintaining a morose silence, interrupted by the occasional bark at the children to "get on with your dinner" or "no, you can't have any more milk". I hate the evening meal. The weekends are also pretty hellish."

Cariboo this sounds just like our house a few months ago, we've been through a rough patch over the last 3 years and I feel so sorry for you My DH was also always angry and hating me and the DCs, it's hellish isn't it? For him it was the stress of working full-time and having two demanding children, and since he's gone part-time he's been a lot happier and easier to live with and we're back on an even keel again. Of course I don't know your circumstances but I hope you and DH can work it out if that's what you want.

Maybe some time apart will give you both chance to put everything in perspective and work out what's really important. Relate are excellent, you can go on your own if needs be to talk everything through.

I'd also echo 1066 by encouraging you to talk to people in real life, your problems might be a welcome distraction to your friend whose mum's got Alzheimers, IYSWIM, and I'm sure your mum would want to know how bad you're feeling.

Keep us posted, we're all thinking of you .

Thanks. Yesterday was a bit better. The dc hadn't twigged that I'd spent the night at my mum's (yesterday morning he told them I was sleeping & took them to school), so that was a blessing. After school I took the dcs to their swimmming lessons & while dd was having hers, ds & I went for a walk to look for signs of spring. He was sooo adorable - lovely little boy in every way & I felt such a wave of love for him! But when we went to collect dd, he had a mood swing. He was naughty & shouting & aggressive. I pulled him into my lap, saying 'what's wrong? why are you cross? tell mummy' & he leaned over & bit my arm -very hard. Fortunately I had a long-sleeved shirt on. I don't understand! He said sorry to me when the mood lifted but I told his psych about it. Ds was very uncomfortable, which means that he does feel remorse! All 4 of us went out for a pizza after, which we normally never do but it went surprisingly well. Dh & I talked after the dc were asleep. We're going to get some counselling asap.

Great to hear things are looking better, good news about the counselling - it sounds like you both want to make it work which is fab.

It sounds like your son was also enjoying the 1-to-1 time with you yesterday, and was upset/cross when it came to and end when you picked up DD. Do you think he's jealous? It's so hard sharing your time between two DCs isn't it, maybe more 1-to-1 time would be good for him, but you could try telling him that if he behaves like that when it ends he'll miss his next 1-to-1 session?

cariboo, I noticed that earlier in the thread, you spoke about your DS's diet.
It might be worth asking for him to have an allergy test.
My nephew had behavioural difficulties when he was little - and it turned out he was allergic to gluten and dairy, and has an intolerance of sweeteners and colourings.
Before he had been unable to cope in group settings, to concentrate, and he had been aggressive and unpredictable.
The change in his diet did wonders.
He is still a determined young man , but all the irrational anger and confusion has gone.
It may be worth checking his diet out.

dont know if ihas already been mentioned but omega 3 syruip is supposed to help calm a child and to concentrate better

i meant omega 3 in general you can can get omega 3 sanwich spread and fish fingers and i give my ds syrup every day

he has speech delay and gets frustrated and have noticed big difference is also used as part of diet for dc with adhd and behavioural problems always worth a try

Efalex is also good, as the oil comes in tablet form.

Just wanted to say that you have amazing strength and I wish you all the best. My son, who is 5, is seeing a pedopsy as he has been very upset since a friend was killed in an accident. This has helped him enormously but I know the circumstances are different. Do you think you could spend some one-on-one time with each of your children away from the house? I think it would do you all the world of good even if it just a quick trip to the park.

Well, the difficulties you have between dh and yourself will reflect on the children. If you are tense together, they feel it, and it doesn't help, so you need to try to resolve that.

You do have a prob with ds, and it needs getting to the bottom of NOW. Before it escalates.

I took the step of going to an ed.psych privately with ds (similar probs at school to yours, made worse in year 2 by a teacher who didn't like/understand ds).

This wonderful man saw me first, then had 5 or 6 sessions with ds, tested his abilities, talked to him about strategies to deal with his anger towards oither children at school. He talked to dh and I about how to help ds, and wrote us a report for school, to give them some pointers for things to help there (which school are reluctant to follow, but I'm digging in my heels, you may get more co-operation from a private school). This cost us about £500, but has helped us to understand ds, and made life easier for our relationship too.

DS also has 1/2 the time of a TA in class, to give him a little 1 to 1 time, and some time with their learning mentor to learn how to express his feelings in a more reasonable manner, control his anger, and have more empathy with other children's feelings.

I really would suggest that you find a private ed psych, and get your own help.

And if the ed psych called in by the school works for the local education authority, I'd report him for un-professional conduct. It sounds like he has an attitude problem, possibly becos he disaproves of private schools?

I think it's too hard for a boy of his age to tell you what's wrong when he's in the middle of a rage. Holding on to him will have made him more angry I guess which is why the lash out. I think perhaps you should ask him later when he's calm what made him cross. Though to be honest, if it's not obvious to you as an adult, what made him cross I think it's highly likely that he won't be able to tell you himself really.

He obviously did and does really enjoy the one to one contact with you and perhaps at the moment he finds the transition period difficult, as in this mood swing on picking up his sister.

I honestly think that all you can do at this stage is to keep giving as much one to one with the kids as you can so they get into a solid routine and know and trust that it will happen...and I'm 100% sure that when you and DH are a bit more sorted the children will be very very much better in their behaviour.

Good for you and DH to be planning the counselling

I can't visit MN everyday atm but when i do it's lovely to read these messages of support.

Ds and dd have both been checked for allergies by a specialist 3yrs ago & then again just before Xmas. Ds has no allergies, food or otherwise but very dry & sensitive skin for which the specialist prescribed a topical cream & short, tepid baths, along with a sedative if his skin gets very itchy. It's clear though that his behavior can't be due to sensitive skin.

As for the edpsych we saw, he was an incompetent ninny & certainly biased as this area is governed by rather militant socialists who see no need for private education. Whatever. I haven't the patience to go into that argument atm & am even thinking of resigning from the school's PTA. I feel exhausted, discouraged & insecure. Whatever's wrong must be my fault, which doesn't make sense but is my current state of mind.

Dh & I have our mtg with the pedpsych on thursday. It would be naive to think she'll have some miraculous explanation & "cure". I don't want to put him on any drugs but the tired & fed-up part of me thinks, oh what a relief to give him a pill & have him behave "normally". No more shrieking, screaming, hysterics, violence, mood-swings... when he's good, he's very, very good, as the nursery-rhyme goes. And clearly bright, too. but I'm worn out.

I also have a very angry (at times) DS, so I know how you feel Also know how his behaviour can cause me and DH to row - mainly because DH is able to ignore more bad behaviour than I am and then I feel frustrated that he isn't leaping to deal with it, and also because I am with DS more and at the critical times - leaving for school, 5pm witching hour, and sometimes bedtime.
I also work with children with severe behaviour problems and know that while it can be in part due to parents' behaviour , it's also down to their own personality, age and some conditions, like autism - including aspergers, which can be diagnosed.... that can really help because the behaviour doesn't feel so personalised, and there are strategies that help manage the behaviour.
I hope the pedpsych meeting is useful, after a crap edpshyc!