Unhappy non-sleeping 19 week old. We are at wits end...

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DD2 has been a pretty unhappy baby since she was about two weeks old. Her default mode is whinging and/or crying.
She had a great birth, v calm, no cranial issues (she's been for craniosacral therapy and been pronounced cranially 'sound')or stress overhang.

I have tried all the usual gripe water, colic drops, me drinking oceans of fennel tea etc etc but she is generally unhappy and sleepless.

The trouble is she's getting WORSE as she gets older. She used to sleep for one three hour stretch every night. Now i'm lucky to get an hour. 25 mins last night. She refuses to nap for long through the day - again half an hour here or there. And is generally miserable.

Why are we at wits end now? Two things

1. she's due to have her third set of jabs on monday. when she had her first set she cried so much and got herself into such a state she ended up in hospital over night with what they call an 'apparently life threatening episode' - ie she went grey and unresponsive.

Her second jabs were given at day care in hosp and she just went straight to sleep so i thought we'd be ok to go to gp's nurse again this time but now i'm not too sure.

1. the reason i thought we'd be ok having jabs with nurse is that for the first week of the new year she changed into a normal, happy delightful baby. i started putting her to bed in the evenings (previously she'd only sleep across my lap) and although her sleep pattern didn't improve overnight it was better between 1830 and midnight and her mood and ability to nap through the day was transformed. I thought her problems were down to being overtired and was v relieved that we'd turned a corner.

Last tuesday was a blissful day. I was so happy but wed she was a bit grumpy and by thurs was back to her usual miserable self.

I'm afraid my mood just crashed. now i can't see an end to this stage and am dreading her jabs tomorrow (can't put them off any more).
What is wrong with her? What more can i do?

I am planning to try to make hv appointment this week but last time we went for her two month check up she cried so hard we were asked to leave (the baby not the hv) and come back another time!

DD2 dominates family life. All our days are about getting her to nap. I feel for DD1 (2 years)who is clearly frustrated and jealous of the attention and has started hitting the baby (and you can imagine dds's reaction, something to REALLY cry about). I dread being on my own with them because then dd doesn't sleep and life becomes unbearable...
etc etc

Please help!

early bump but she's sleeping so i have chance to mn...

Her reaction to her first jabs sounds scary, could you not do her last jabs in hospital just to be on the safe side? Has a doctor had a look at her, to make sure she is ok generally? Could it possibly be reflux?

Does nothing make her sleep? Like a walk in the buggy, a trip in the car?

DD1 didn't sleep very well from birth, and cried quite a bit because she was tired. She had good days and bad days but generally seemed to be getting worse over time. The GP found nothing wrong with her, and she was growing normally. The turning point for us was when I stopped breastfeeding around 20 weeks and gave her formula milk instead. Literally the day she started ff she started napping during the day, and slept at night from 9 p.m till about 5 a.m. I remember how relieved I was, because it was so wearing having a baby that is constantly tired but never sleeps. I'm not saying formula is the solution, just saying what happened with DD1. I don't know why it happened, maybe I didn't have enough milk or something.

Just want to add good luck, I remember how tiring & depressing it is having a baby like this. I hope she gets better DD1 is now a model toddler, BTW

{{{{hugs}}}}

Have you had reflux ruled out? That could explain a lot of the sleep and crying issues.

Also could it be a dairy intolerance, have you tried cutting dairy out of your own diet.

At 19 weeks old I think it's pretty common for them to just nap for half an hour here and there DS was like this until about 7mo. Going for a drive, a walk in the pram or jiggling him round the house in the sling seemed to help. Some people also swear by white noise hairdryer, washing machine etc -- to calm their LOs.

Can you find out if you can delay her last lot of jabs I thought they didn't actually need to have them this young until she's a bit more settled?

I really feel for you, I think some babies just take a while to become adjusted to the world, then become happier once they can sit up/crawl/whatever. Can you co-sleep at night to all get more rest?

Tnanks so much for replies.

I have wondered about changing to formula but i stubbornly hold onto breastmilk being the one sure thing i can give her that's good. Of course i could be wrong and putting me before her and i might look back and kick myself but from here i just can't bring myself to go down that road. as i say, i fear it's more stubborness than science.

yes, some things maker her sleep. White noise used to be more effective than it is now and her swing worked wonders for a while but these days she has to be tired and in swing and watching me hoover (white noise and entertainment!) before she'll drop off. and the length of time i have to spend hoovering is getting longer too.
buggy sometimes works, sling sometimes, car after a while but she tends to wake up at traffic lights etc and as we're in london there's no chance of a long un-interupted drive.

haven't had reflux ruled out and sometimes she does like to be upright after a feed but not always. she is a big girl and gaining weight well and isn't that sick-y. she's quite farty. i had wondered about reflux but thought the weight gain ruled it out.

Gawd scouserabroad i can't get the sleep from 9 pm - 5 am out of my mind. how wonderful that would be...
but it is her general attitude and moood which bothers me. if she was happy i'd cope with the sleeplessness.

I think they can have reflux and still gain weight? Not sure about that though.

I know what you mean about carrying on breastfeeding, I originally wanted to carry on until 6 months like the guidelines say you should. But I was so tired in the end that I would have tried anything for some peace, and the formula feed did calm DD1 so much she was like a different baby. I didn't actually stop breastfeeding altogether at first, I think it was 2 bottles a day to start with, plus about 3 breastfeeds.

I really don't want to sound like I'm against breastfeeding or anything, because I'm really not (am still breastfeeding DD2)I just remember the sheer relief when DD1 started sleeping more and crying less!

I'll ask the hv about reflux as you could well be right.

I do know what you mean about breastfeeding. tbh i'd been thinking of dd2 as colicky and thought formula would make it worse but now i do wonder.
I think i should weigh this up very carefully and do what's best for dd2...not what's best for my stubborn streak.

if a baby has acidic reflux they will still gain weight but be in a lot of pain and not sleep easily, been there got that hat nearly went demented with the constant crying......

If it is reflux then I don't think switching to formula would help tbh, you would be able to get medication for it though.

I really feel for you! My DD was a terrible sleeper till 17 months, often waking every hour! We eventually sorted it out (after nearly going crazy with sleep deprivation!) by..... I had to get her to nap in the pram with a long walk every day (if she woke I'd try to quickly rock the pram again till she was asleep. I tried to structure her daytime naps following a bit of the Gina Ford routine (though none of the rest of the book!) In the end we got help from a sleep training programme online, which recommended NOT breastfeeding to sleep, or having breastmilk as the last thing before bed. She said that gives babies the association of milk-to-sleep and they wake up for attention whenever they come in to a light sleep. She said the key was to give milk first (as large a feed as poss) then pyjamas on, consistent bedtime routine in a darkened room, books etc. Then put baby in cot and let them go to sleep by themselves. (Sounds easy but wasn't and involved gradual withdrawal...eg day one- patting back, day two- just hand on back, day three just sitting by cot, etc, until you're out of the room).
The other thing was to cut all night breastfeeds by one minute per night each feed until she was not waking up hungry in the night. It really worked for us, and after this (and seeing a cranial osteopath) she became a brilliant sleeper, and has generally slept through the night ever since. Good luck! I would postpone the jabs too....

Oh, meant to add, it applied to all types of milk, not just breastmilk. I think maybe the difference with formula is that people generally feed every 4 hours which is automatically quite a structured routine. I wouldn't have given up breastfeeding for anything, I loved it, and I know friends with breastfed babies who've slept through from 3 months! One friend expresses one bottle per day (a large amount) and gives that to her baby as her last feed. Because it's a lot of milk, she seems to sleep through.....

thanks again to all for replies.

i will check out reflux. the odd thing is she goes down quite easily at the beginning of the evening (she's sleeping now) but as the night goes on she gets harder and harder to settle and sleeps for shorter and shorter periods.

i do suspect she is waking and demanding breastmilk as comfort and to help get her back to sleep (No-one needs to eat every 25 mins surely!?) but if i try to give her less or put her down awake we're straight into the thrashing leading to howling routine. dd1 also used to use breastmilk like this - tho only once or twice a night and i tackled it in pretty much the way you suggest christmaspixie but she was older. dd2 is still v young and prob needs at least some of the through the night feeds. just not as many!

Does she have a dummy? Would that help settle her?

I would recommend cutting out dairy as your LO's behaviour puts me in mind of my DDs (although she was never as extreme). I cut out all dairy products and almost overnight things improved. Reflux testing sounds like a v. good plan too.

Good luck and hope it gets better soon.

Hi - this sounds pretty familiar - especially the going down well and then getting harder and harder to settle, and to me it sounds like colic. My dd has literally JUST grown out of colic - I posted about it here earlier in the week, and as of Wednesday - the day she turned 14 weeks - she has become a different baby. I know it can go on until 6 months, so maybe it is just a question of time...

Just a thought - are you weaning her yet? You say she's a big baby, so she may be hungry, and that may help with her sleep.

I would persist with the hv, and maybe take her to the GP to rule out any physical problems just for your peace of mind. Also, before you take her for her third set of jabs, check if there's any harm in postponing them. A friend of mine never even bothered with her dd's 3rd round, and while I'm not recommending that, I can't see that it would hurt to put it off if you're worried about it.

In the meantime, maybe you can get someone else to take her for a long walk so you can sleep or play with your older child.

Also, I took my dd swimming, which she loved and gave me a chance to bond with a happy, smiley baby - while I still loved her, I certainly did not enjoy looking after her. I also dreaded being left alone with her and her big brother (nearly 2).

Someone else gave me this advice when I was worrying about the thrashing and self-soothing thing, and that was worry about one thing at a time. Concentrate on staying sane, getting sleep by whatever means possible. Me and my dp would take it in turns to sit up and cuddle her to sleep so the other one could sleep. Invest in some ear plugs, so while your dp rocks the baby you get proper, deep sleep.

Also, I found my dd coped better with a 'little and often' approach to feeding. I stopped trying to top her up to get her to sleep longer, and just gave her one breast each feed making sure she emptied it - apparantly if they don't fully empty the breast they get less of the protien rich hind milk and more of the watery foremilk and that can cause digestive discomfort. Bottles - formula or expressed - can make wind worse. What I'm saying is if you don't want to stop breastfeeding, don't.

I hope you get some help with this - and some sleep!

DS is a huge baby and he has reflux (he's not a real screamer though, just a miserable, moany little guy )... infant gaviscon seems to help a bit and he does sleep better on it. It might be worth a try ask your GP for a prescription just to see (that's what our hv recommended and it made a real difference). He's still sicky though I can't yet recommend cutting out dairy because I haven't tried it myself (but I should!).

Good luck (of course it might not be reflux at all, but I hope you find a solution).

I echo scouser in that i had that experience of nothing settling dd1 when I exclusively bf. She was sick after each bf and then hungry half an hour later.
I found the same as scouse in that when I introduced some formula at 2230 she started sleeping and naps were at set times to a set routine. This was bliss I am also not anti bf and intend to bfeed bump 2 when it arrives, however, the lack of sleep with dd1 for only 6wks contributed to me having PND for 9mths. I was too exhausted to enjoy her and the bond suffered for a while. Sometimes you need to save your sanity
I also started weaning at 16wks.
I can now report a happy, healthy 2yo who still naps for 1.5hrs during the afternoon and 12hours at night.

thanks for great messages, it helps to know we're not the only ones and babies can be like this so i'm not imagining it.

last night was worst yet. she barely went into cot and would only settle if upright against my shoulder (ie me sitting upright too). this started before midnight when i went to bed. she doesn't usually get to this stage until 0300. i don't know longest she slept but guess it was around 40 mins max.

she hasn't poo'd for three days and seems to be straining to pass wind. maybe she has a digestive problem?! i thought bf babies didn't get constipated but stand to be corrected (by a 19 week old i suspect0!

anyway, i've cancelled jabs and made gp appointment. it'll be locum not our usual doc so not ideal but we'll see what he says.
i'm just worried she doesn't have a coherent set of symptoms and he'll think i'm neurotic.
i will insist on some infant gaviscon though - even if only to rule reflux out.

thanks again for all support!

Hi There, I'm very surprised that they didn't insist that your baby has all the jabs at hospital. My DD2 had a bad reaction to the first set, we left it for 5 months before she had the next set and these were done in hospital.

Anyway, are there allergies in your family? I know you're b/f baby but my dd was allergic to my breast milk even though I cut out all dairy, wheat, eggs and nuts. She was a much happier baby when we switched to Neocate (avail on prescription). Cutting out stuff in your diet needs to be done under supervision and basically, you need the support of your gp to refer you to a paediatrician, dietician etc.

I had exactly the same problem with My DD - I couldn't cope anymore at 15 weeks - she slept for 1 hour a day and screamed for 23 hours - it was hell. I eventually (after many visits to baby clinic) went to GP and she checked her out - no physical problem at all - so GP suggested we tried Lactose free formulae - cxhanged baby after one feed! She slept for two hours after that first bottle - I kept prodding her as I though something was wrong - she had never slept that long!

So I gave up BF and stayed on Lactose free formulae - perfect baby. Slep all night and two hours in the day. At 12 months we went on to cows milk and she was fine - so whatever digestive - problem she had righted itself.

Good luck - I know how hard it is.

She sounds exhausted, which in itself stops them sleeping properly, and then you have a vicious circle. I couldn't comment on all the potential reflux and jabs issues, but perhaps some very straightforward sleep training would be the first step forward?

hello again. gp better than i expected and gave us a referal to walk in pead clinic which runs at local hosp and some infant gaviscon.
dd2 won't take gaviscon but still had better night last night and seems more cheerful today. i plan to go to clinic tomorrow.

orangina i started sleep training and had a great week - but then she got worse and worse hence current state. i am still putting her down after bath and massage in the evening and she is still sleeping during evening - infact she sleeps best between being put down and around midnight.

I hope the gaviscon works.... my dd (now nearly 3) was quite reflux-y as an infant, and gaviscon was brilliant. But she was bottle fed (mostly EBM, but still through a bottle, why do I even feel I need to justify that?!), and so giving her the gaviscon in the bottle was easy.
How was the clinic?

And actually, now that I remember, her reflux was brought on each time by her jabs.....

if only she'd take the gaviscon! i'll have to try mixing it with ebm but getting time and space to express isn't easy.

clinic ok-ish. got off to bad start overhearing very rude and dismissive doctor say she couldn't read gp handwriting and we shouldn't be at clinic anyway. as she stalked off i made my feelings known to staff, ie that she shouldn't talk about patients like that in their hearing and shouldn't talk to staff like that every (really felt for poor nurse being barked at) and that i wasn't interested in battling with a doctor on top of everything else so they got me another doc to see. he was sweet but basically said persist with gaviscon and was stumped when i asked what we'd do if dd2 persisted in spitting it out! but he did listen and did take his time so can't be faulted.
he also suggested problem might right itself/ease with weaning. she's 20 weeks tomorrow. now with dd1 weaned at 6 calendar months but wonder if i can start dd2 at 26 weeks... not sure which date you're meant to use!

interesting link between reflux and jabs...
i'm sure dd2 isn't reflux-y all the time.