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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

toddler group politics

25 replies

hairtwiddler · 07/01/2008 13:25

I take my 2yr old to a local toddler group, which we both really enjoy. However, there is another child there who repeatedly pushes over, hits or is aggressive to mine. It's not in the course of play, or because one has the others toy, etc. The incidents are always unprovoked.
The mum and I have chatted - she finds him hard to control, and is very apologetic and embarrassed. I sympathise, and know some kids do hit and bite etc. I realise I am lucky to have a very placid child but going to this group is becoming quite stressful. I watched them both like a hawk today and yet there was still a hefty smack dished out quick as a flash.
I suppose there's not much I can do, but can anyone provide insight from the other side of this situation? I know these things happen, but this is now more than a one off, and it always seems to be my little one that bears the brunt!

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lazarou · 07/01/2008 14:09

What does the woman do when her child hits yours? Because if she just stands there like a wet lettuce you are perfectly entitled to tell her child to stop doing it.

Original poster

hairtwiddler · 07/01/2008 19:06

She does make attempts to say it's naughty but suspect he's too quick for her. I think I'm more the wet lettuce for not saying more! Thanks for reply, any other words of wisdom?

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warthog · 07/01/2008 19:21

can you make sure he doesn't even come near your dc? every time he comes close, move him on, stand between them or move your dc?

JoyS · 07/01/2008 19:38

There is a very unruly child at our toddler group whose mum doesn't even watch him. I keep myself between him and DD and I've told him off more than once.

Acinonyx · 07/01/2008 19:46

Something like this has happened to us. I stop the other dc getting close to mine - sometimes that means being quite firm - a real physical barrier.

perpetualworrier · 07/01/2008 19:47

This may be controversial, but I think this is one of the reasons we take them to these groups.

Some children do hit and push, the ones at pre-school and school do and if they've experienced it when mum is nearby, it won't be such a shock then.

Provided there's not actual bloodshed and mum is taking some sort of action, leave them be. Your DC will stay away from him if he becomes too much for her/him. How does your DC react to these incidents?

Original poster

hairtwiddler · 07/01/2008 19:48

My gut feeling is that this child doesn't understand what he's doing is wrong, and doesn't understand when he's being told off. I don't think there's anything I can do, apart from if I see it happening again, ask her to make a special effort to keep them apart?

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Original poster

hairtwiddler · 07/01/2008 19:50

Sorry missed last post - mostly shock and bemusement, with a few tears. Was a late walker so still doesn't have great gross motor skills - quite easily knocked over etc. Also lives in own little play world!

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PanicPants · 07/01/2008 19:52

Oh God, you could be describing my 2 year old. He lashes out at other children for no apparent reason but is an angel at home (only child). I think he really feels insecure around other children and just doesn't know how to play.

If he hits other children at a group/soft play and I am there then he is removed and we go home.

juuule · 07/01/2008 19:54

Perpetualworrier - this isn't the reason that I took my toddlers to this sort of group. I don't think there is any benefit to being repeatedly pushed over, hit or have someone regularly being aggressive to you.
Surely you are not in the camp that thinks being bullied at school is good for you and toughens you up for adulthood.
Hairtwiddler - I'd do as the others have said and make sure there's some distance between the other child and yours or supervise very closely any activity between them.

Original poster

hairtwiddler · 07/01/2008 19:58

No I don't think that's what toddler groups are for either. I accept that there will be tears and tantrums (and yes, there will be biting and hitting), but for me those things are useful in teaching young children how to share, and be with others. This isn't the first time my child has been roughed around a bit by another, it's just this particular other child is really rough, and it seems so malicious and unprovoked. I'm sad that it's spoiling the experience for me, and that I'm not sure how best to deal with it.
I really feel for anyone having to deal with the other side too...not sure I would know what to do. Am very in favour of removal though PanicPants, and that is not happening here.

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perpetualworrier · 07/01/2008 20:06

No I'm definitely not suggesting that bullying is good for you, but some rough and tumble is imo. but it does sound like this is more than that.

How is your relationship with the other mum? If she's feeling stressed about it, perhaps you could suggest the remove technique to her to help her out. Wouldn't suggest she goes home though, can't see how she wouldn't
't be offended at that - a friend of mine had a toddler like this and she used to give him time out in the hallway, while she hid watching from behind the door. He's a lovely well behaved 5yo now.

JoyS · 07/01/2008 20:12

I don't think it's done my daughter any good to be shoved to the ground and have toys yanked off her by a child who is older, bigger and stronger than she is.

People bring their toddlers to a group so they can learn to play with each other. There will always be some give and take but you don't have to stand for that kind of aggression.

Hairtwiddler, I'm always surprised at what toddlers can understand! He will probably understand if you say to him, 'x was playing with that toy, you can have a turn when he is done' or 'we don't hit.'

cathshuck · 07/01/2008 20:13

This happened to my ds 2.5 we had been going to the group since he was 8 weeks old and then a boy of 3 started to come and only ever picked on my son. The mother saw and did nothing, in the end my ds refused to go and would burst into tears as we approached the door. We have changed groups to another where none of his friends are and this child has started going to this one and does the same thing. I could scream at the mother sometimes as she watches and does nothing.

Original poster

hairtwiddler · 07/01/2008 20:14

I don't know her well enough... and to be honest, we probably don't click very well. She's the kind of person who doesn't listen in a conversation, just talks! I might be able to say 'a friend' had a similar toddler and this is what they did.... not a bad idea.

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juuule · 07/01/2008 20:14

Absolutely, JoyS.

Original poster

hairtwiddler · 07/01/2008 20:20

When I say he can't understand, I actually wonder if the frustration/agression is part of a wider problem with communication/language. It's just a hunch on my part, but that's what makes the situation more difficult to deal with i think.

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Acinonyx · 07/01/2008 20:32

Worrier - I see your point, but I don't want dd to think I would just stand by and do nothing to protect her when I am actually right there in front of them. The occaisional unforseen aggressive act is bound to happen anyway - and that's quite sufficient.

Hassled · 07/01/2008 20:43

The OP wanted insight from the "other side" (aka The Dark Side ):
I have 4 DCs and was very good at sighing and tutting over the kids at Toddler Groups who snatched toys, hit kids for no apparent reason and were generally a pain in the neck. Then I had DS3 and HE BECAME THAT MONSTER CHILD!!! Eventually I just stopped going - DS3 was never particularly hard work at home but morphed into a horror at Toddlers - the breaking point was when he bit someone really hard and quite deliberately. I still don't know why he behaved like that - he's 5 now and well-behaved at school, popular, placid etc. SO I cant give you any explanations apart from to say the other mother is probably as mortified as I was, and if she isn't then she shoudl be. Talk to her and tell her how you're feeling - I think it was other mothers' reactions to DS3 that made me take stronger action.

Original poster

hairtwiddler · 07/01/2008 20:46

Thanks for that, really helpful. I think I need to get over my fear of all confrontation and have a chat to her about it at an opportune moment. So difficult to do without coming across like you think she is at fault. Am very aware that I only see a small piece of the picture.

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Dixichik · 07/01/2008 20:48

"a hefty smack dished out as quick as a flash"
while I don't condone children being violent to each other perhaps this is the response this little boy has learnt from his mother. If she wollops him then perhaps he thinks its okay to behave aggressively to other kids. What do you think?

Dixichik · 07/01/2008 20:52

Sorry hairtwiddler, realise now that it was the little boy smacking yours, not the mum smacking him!
Doh!

Sushipaws · 07/01/2008 20:52

My dd is still much younger so I don't have any experience of this but my nursery uses the attension technique. I have a friend who has 2 dc who fight allot and I told her about what they do at the nursery and it seemed to work for her.

I don't know how close you are to this other mum but you could suggest this and maybe it might help. But again my advice might be rubbish so please feel free to ignore me.

When one child hits/bites another, you both completely ignore the hitter/biter and give the hurt child loads of attension, hugs kisses the lot. Appaerently the child who hits/bites will soon learn that he's left out of all the fun when he behaves a certain way.

hatwoman · 07/01/2008 20:54

this isn;t a suggestion that comes from experience but it might work in itself, and if it doesn't it's a gentle way to get the two of you talking about it. how about asking the other mum if she thinks things might improve if the two of them had the chance to spend time together elsewhere away from the bustle of the toddler group? the playground perhaps, a coffee at a cafe after play group? or if you;re feeling brave her house or yours?

Original poster

hairtwiddler · 07/01/2008 20:58

Sorry hatwoman, don't think I can stretch to that level of saintliness! Underneath my wish to understand, there is a degree of seething! I think the lots of attention to the hurt child is the best plan, and my child has certainly had lots of attention after the events (from other mums as well as me). I really don't want to create bad feeling, but am not willing to put my child at more risk of being bashed about!

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