Parental behaviour - telling other people's kids off

[signman]

at a group today another child hit mine with a plastic frying pan, square in the face. i gave the kid a firm telling off, but was tol the whole group went silent during, and then looked at the floor a lot, after the episode. it's playing on my mind - what would you have done? the parent is a good one but wasn't there, and while he didn't cry, ds was left with a red nose for the afternoon (shame it wasn't comic relief day instead of children in need!).

Only yesterday my 3 yr old was running around in the playground with my 5 yr old and other school children at home time. One of the schoolchildren grabbed my 3 yr old and pulled him back, my 3 yr old was struggling and trying to get away and started crying - I was running over to intervene and yelled at the other child to let my son go - which he did - quickly and guiltily.

His mother was at the other end of the playground chatting and didn't see what happened - I didn't have the slightest qualm about shouting at the offender - the situation needed to be rectified as soon as possible.

Cab - I think your approach is good in theory, but what about the small child who needs to know then and there that his actions are wrong. Imho, its no good just telling the mother, who then tells the child 5/10 mins later or indeed when they collect them from your house - its just too late. Young children cant remember much other than the here and now - hence the its mine! arguments because (I have it now), whereas the other child says its mine! (because they had it two minutes ago)

Just wanted to reiterate what scrummymummy said. JanH, I consider you one of my pals on MN - when I'm feeling like Norma no-mates you always come to the rescue with something wise and witty.

I accompanied dd2 to a teddy bear's picnic last week, as I had done for dd1 the week before. My, what a difference 14 months makes! I was allocated 6 children, one of them my own, two realised they were in the 'orange' group and did basically what was asked of them. But MY GOD the others were complete nightmares. Anyway, to get to my point, I didn't think I could tell them off at all, would have had no probs with my dd BUT .. someone else's?? So I watched the two accompanying classroom assistants and realised that 'No, you can't do that XXX' was acceptable, and followed on from their lead.

S'pose what I'm trying to say is that it's easy to reprimand you own child when they do something wrong, but it feels very strange doing it to a child that you don't know. Goooood .. does that make any sense at all

I have absolutely no problems at all telling other peoples children off if their own mother is not there.

I'm so used to saying things to other kids (worked in a nursery) that I just don't think about it! Have been known to tell a child not to do something directly in front of their mother - just out of habit really.

Last week, DS1 was pushed onto the floor in the playground and being kicked in the stomach. I did storm across the playground and have several "words" with the kid involved, purely because the mother is absolutely c* at discipline with her kids (they're wild!) so I decided to have my say. Now the silly cow just glares at me in the playground

Slinky you're just the sort of person I want around my dd's if I'm not there!

Hopefully if enough people tell kids off their dozt parents may cotton on to the fact that they don't keep the kids under control. I'm not talking about the 'missed minute' syndrome that most of us have. I have a boistrous boy and I've missed things on occasion. I'm talking about the parents who either a. can't be arsed or b. think that their child can do no wrong. If enough people step in them possibly they might wake up and do something.

carla,

I try to teach my children to be kind and nice to others so for their own sakes I have to show them that I expect others to be kind to them. I feel mean and unjust if I tell ds off for hitting dd but then don't say a word when another time a child hits him. It is like I am teaching him that it is acceptable for other children to behave in a way which I do not tolerate with him.
The other week I told off a boy in the playground for hitting ds in the face - his mother was nowhere near and frankly, didn't seem to care. I told him in a very stern voice that you don't hit and asked him to apologise to ds - which he did (I think I shocked him...). A group of mums then congratulated me as they had been watching this boy wrecking havoc for a while - so I didn't feel too bad. AND I told the teacher! Well, ds was very upset and I wanted to explain why. She then told me after school that they had all had a big chat about why you don't hit - they are only reception, it should be said!
All buoyed up with my telling-off success I then told off a 5 yr girl at a party in a play centre. She was in the ball pit throwing balls at my 21month old dd's head. So I told her not to do it. Felt no qualms because the mum wasn't there and yet this time the other mums seemed a bit embarrassed.
So you can't win all the time!

cupcakes, I so agree. It is important that ds sees me behaving consistently as it is for him to behave consistently. I will always treat another child exactly the same as I would treat my own child. If the other parent was there I would turn to them (if they hadn't noticed and if I didn't know them too well). If they weren't there, or if it was a playdate at a good friends house I would just go right ahead. I suppose, being a teacher, it is difficult to switch off from it. But I never tolerate poor behaviour, and I think it would be very detrimental for ds to see me doing so!

I've been thinking about this recently as nursery have a policy which we have always applauded. If ds has been on the receiving end of some other toddler's activities, they say to us "another child scratched/bit/pushed him" etc. At first we thought "which other child?" But then we realised that actually what we really cared about was that both children were properly dealt with at the time. We are also happy that we are never told "see that mark on x's arm, well, your ds bit him." Instead we are told from time to time, "ds has been biting a bit recently and this is how we approach it." We either say thank you and use their approach so that ds has consistency, or if we disagree we say our approach. I like this because then the focus is not on "x is a naughty boy" but instead on "these things happen with toddlers, and we do our best to make sure that the children learn and that the injured parties are cared for."

Mind you, things are now changing. Ds's lip was still bad the morning after a shoving incident this week, so I just commented to him "does your lip hurt?" To which he responded with the name of one of the children at nursery! So much for their wonderful policy!

Merlot it depends on the situation. If dd (now 4)has friends around to play but no mums and one runs to me saying x hit y, I'll sit them down, remind them that there's a no lying rule in my house and ask each of them to tell me what happened.
There's usually 2 sides to a story so generally it's a case of saying it wasn't nice to pinch the toy was it? And it definitely wasn't a good idea to hit your friend because of what they did, was it? Let the kids tell me how they think the matter should be resolved and congratulate them on their good ideas or behaviour.
(Have to say up until now as far as I know dd has never hit another child - well except for play fights with the big boy cousins. If she did hit she would be sent to her room and that would be the end of the play date.)
When she and her friends were younger I would give them the answers and obviously be a bit closer to hand. So either 'no', or 'don't even think about it sweety' if a hand is raised, or 'give that back now - you can play with it in five minutes'. Once had a child at home who behaved atrociously on first visit away from mum, tantrums the lot. Just ignored it although I was terrified she would hurt herself. Since then she's been a complete angel.
Unfortunately at mothers and toddlers some of the kids behaved very badly so I tended just to concentrate on my own daughter and made sure she didn't pinch things off other kids, tried to 'play' with her and her pals to prevent bad situations. Usually found if I stayed close by a raised eyebrow was enough to prevent other kids beating her up or pinching things too often. If necessary, I would quietly say 'DD is playing with that just now, I'll give it to you once she's finished with it. Dd would then usually hand it over straight away.'
If I witnessed a bigger kid say deliberately knocking a wee one off a bike, I would pick up the wee one and tell both mums what had happened so they could sort it out.
When on duty at playgroup the parents were not allowed to verbally discipline children at all. So you would try to prevent situations, but if something happened would bring it to the attention of the playgroup leader to sort out.
Dd is now at nursery, so if helping out for the day on say a walk where you're in charge of 6 kids you obviously have to stop them kicking each other or pushing each other onto the road, but back at the nursery it would be prevention rather than cure which I would leave to the experts.
Have absolutely no problem with another mum discipling my child so long as they get their facts straight first and don't use physical violence.
The worst situation I've ever had was in a fun factory with dd and a few of her pals. Two of the pals came to me and 'said' a boy had hit them. I told an employee there and asked her to give me a hand to see what was happening. The employee then saw the boy hitting someone else and informed the mother who did nothing. Two minutes later, apropos of nothing the boy had my daughter by the neck and she was going blue. Dragged dd out of his stranglehold, didn't speak to the boy, told the mother what had happened and she left. I did feel sorry for her, but thought if she had just stayed a bit closer by he might have behaved better, but perhaps he had bigger problems. I'll never know, but did feel sorry for the mum and her angry wee boy.
TBH I've found that what most of the other parents in this area deem as apparently acceptable behaviour, I find atrocious, so have decided the best policy is to keep my head down. Wimp or what!!

signman I think you did absolutely the right thing. I feel that it is my responsibility to protect ds from this type of behavior and also to let him know that it is not OK to do this and there are consequences to inappropriate actions. I have a good friend that I rarely see anymore because she simply will not control her aggressive ds.

think you were completely within your rights. In that situation I would probably tell the child off very quickly, then take my child with me to the mother of the aggressor, and tell her what her kid had done. It is then up to her to deal with it.

The other day my DS had a bit of a fight over a toy at a play centre, and did hit another boy. I rushed over and told him off, quite loudly, and said if he did it again we would leave immediately. He then said sorry to the other boy. I also apologised to his mother, but instead of making the usual "Oh, don't worry, they all do it" noises (DS is 2 and this other boy was about 4), she refused to look at me and then grabbed my DS by the arm and shouted "that was very very naughty" right in his face. Her son, even though he was much bigger than mine and had in fact started the snatching of the toy, was apparently blameless. I was livid. If DD hadn't started crying at that point, I would have said something to her, but didn't really want to make a scene.

Ten mins later, her lovely son jumped onto my baby's head immediately after I told him not to jump near her (she was in the baby area). Naturally, his mother didn't see this incident, and when I told him off, he just ran off without a word.

Other people's kids can be so vile, can't they?

Hey Signman.... I suspect you wouldn't even have given your actions a second thought if FiMc hadn't mentioned the silence and I hadn't mentioned that I'd cry if you shouted at me!! You were totally in the right: and it wasn't just over protectiveness of your offspring because you've rescued my baby recently too. Like I said, it makes it all the more noticable because you're the only male voice in the room, and the only adult I've seen so far who isn't really insipid about such situations.
If we hadn't said anything about it afterwards, good or bad, you'd have never given it a second thought, would you? Other than to think what a good thing you'd done.

It's worth remembering how powerful the row of a strange adult can be to a small child. Think you can overstep the mark easily, because your row packs more punch. This can be a good or bad thing. A lot of people on here who've thought their reactions were 'wimpish' I actually think responded quite well. Wimpish is what I see a lot in my toddler/baby group, where the parents are so nice to each other's children that the scolding is often given to the child who has been hit/run over by car/had toy snatched from hand! I am a bit baffled by this but suppose it's a sort of parent-solidarity that unfortunately confuses the children and leaves difficult behaviour unchallenged.

Spots, I think sometimes parents genuinely find it difficult to reprimand other people's children. Least I do. But I'm happy for others to reprimand mine. Is that so wrong?

If my children misbehave when I am not there I "want" someone else to tell them off. If children are not told off they think their bad behaviour is acceptable to other adults and that I am being too harsh on them. Of course I don't want the other parent to tell them off by shouting at them (but if they've done something violent or dangerous I'd forgive it) but I do want them to say firmly that its wrong.

I do tell other people's children off. I'd even do it with the parent there if the parent was ignoring violent behaviour. I care about the children more than the parents and its not in their interest to be allowed to get away with that type of behaviour.

sorry I was trying to may the want bold and didn't preview

I agree with tatt

I often warn other people's kids just out of habit, I mean today in Kmart a big brother was poking his little sister in the face and as I walked past pushing ds2 I just called out "be gentle with your sister". Don't know where the parents were. I wouldn't do it if parents were on the scene and I wouldn't do it if I didn't have one of my kids with me to give me the parent identity.

With regards to telling off other people's kids who are behaving badly towards or in cahoots with mine I have no compunction at all in telling off. And vice versa for telling my kids off too.

HOWEVER
(rant alert)

I was out in a playground today with both DSs today. Little one was up on the slide and 5metres away standing in the middle of a little ship thing was DS1 3.5. I knew it was home time I knew he was on the turn for getting stroppy and I was about to gather bother of them and go home.

BUT a granny and daughter and a grandchild wnent over to the little ship and tried to go in. DS1 started shouting "go away, this is for boys". Uh-oh, I thought and started getting ds2 off the slide, meanwhile granny starts telling ds1' No you must share" more yelling from ds1 "you are a naughty boy" from granny. I made haste to go over there and do the old placating and removing routine. When ds1 shouts "go away" to the daughter, a grown woman. who then bends down with her face at ds1's level and yells 'go away' back to him.

DS1 bursts in to tears. I stride over there and ask her what the hell she thinks she is doing to a 3.5 year old. She retorts that he shouted at her first (WTF?) and then granny starts shouting "you ought to teach your child some manners" meanwhile both my kids are howling with fear.

I try and tell the daughter she was in the wrong then granny actually comes rightup to my face and puts her dukes up.

At which point I unleash fishwife from hell persona and turn the air blue!. I couldn't believe it. Being physically threatened and being told by an adult that it is justified to shout in a 3.5yr old's face if he shouted first.

Anyway. Double standards on my part or a pair of old witches scaring my little boy?

playgrounds can do funny things to people, IME. Some parents can get very bossy and, well, childish. I've had a couple of nasty things liket that happen to me and dss'. I think the fact that you feel upset means these women stepped over the mark. You wouldn't have been upset if they had just said a few words to your ds, would you? A stranger shouting loudly in the ear of the 3 year old is not on.

What exactly is 'putting your dukes up'?

Anyway,any physical threat is OTT - especailly in front of children. No wonder you were angry.

Thanks TM, it all get very nasty. I'm ashamed of my behaviour but most of all furious at that an adult can put her self on the level of a very small child both physically in order to scare him and on a moral level.

I agree, playgrounds can bring out the worst in all kinds of folks.

She raised her fistst to me!

crikey. that's totally out of order. i dread things like that happening to me cos i never know if i'll be brave enuff to stand up to the other mother!!

suzywong - that is so awful. Your poor children. Those women who have obviously both brought up children really should have known better. Telling someone else?s child that they are naughty is just unacceptable - (IMO it is fairly unacceptable to tell your own children that they are naughty as it tends not to solve anything just make the situation worse and the child feel worse but thats another issue) - but to then shout in their face and square up to you in front of your child is just outrageous behaviour. No wonder you were so angry and responded as you did. Hope you never have to come across those awful women again and would just chalk it up to experience rather than give yourself a hard time about the way you responded - sure you probably can think of other ways to have handled it now but you reacted off the cuff like a normal protective mum at the time anxious to stick up for your children and that is not such a bad thing all things considered. Thank God it didn?t come to blows