Crisis of parenting confidence after 10 consecutive days with friends and family....

[robin3]

DS1 is 4 and has always been a fairly stroppy child tbh but of course when he was younger this meant he would growl at adults when he didn't like what they were saying. Now he is becoming very verbal and using the language we use to great effect so 'Mummy I absolutely wont put up with that' or 'just ignore me' as he flounces off.

He's also great....loving, plays nicely on his own....school say he's very kind to other children and seems to get invited on lots of playdays. It's his grumpy attitude of 'I'm so bored' having just recieved loads of presents. He is also pretty intolerant of his DS2 (18 months) who's such a bundle of fun at the moment, really knocking him to the floor hard etc. I wouldn't say it's jealousy though as DS1 gets lots of individual time with all of us....again he just wants his brother to leave him alone really.

Anyway over Christmas we of course spent more time with my parents which resulted in my Mum admitting DS1 is very good but can be quite rude. She LOVES Supernanny and was begging me to use the naughty step system to disipline his tongue.

We also had old friends of his over and that was carnage. On both occasions DS1 declared he didn't like them etc etc. Stropping off in to another room then coming back to add more like 'you're never coming back here'.

He was then invited to the house of some of his school friends and had a great time...no trauma, well behaved...bit sullen to their Mum but overall great. I know he misses pre-school which is usually 5 mornings a week.

I think I'm pretty patient but I have to say that I lost it a few times over the holidays and tbh came back to work today thinking DP must be a saint and REALLY worried that we're getting it all wrong. I'm also absolutely exhausted and largely drank my way through the evenings so not much fun. We have tried to incentivise nice brotherly behaviour with stickers and that seemed ok but he still lost his temper with DS2 every day two or three times. Now I'm thinking that when he is verbally rude we should take away a toy for a day but then you read all the books and they all seem to say encourage and reward the good but ignore the bad.

HELP! I'd rather have a child that is destructive than a child that is so verbally cheeky to grown ups! Any suggestions?

He's missing pre-school.

Holidays can be really hard for children - they need them, they're knackered, but they also want their routine.

He might calm down once he's back at pre-school.

Also, boys of this age have a big testosterone surge and can go a bit wild!

I think he sounds great - I particularly love 'Mummy I absolutely wont put up with that'

Glad it's not just me. Feel really bad that Christmas proved such a strain for us...we were in bed by 10.30 on NY Eve and were woken up by the neighbours amazing fireworks display at midnight.

Another one was 'calm down mummy you're getting out of control'. He also said 'Can I go and play with my best friend today' to which I said 'no honey he's still on holiday' 'oh mummy you're boring and I hate it'....really didn't expect that until he was 13! I had this vision that he was going to like his holiday but it seems he didn't and that makes me feel like we're failing.

We have put his castle/knights in his bedroom so we can close the door on DS1 and DS2 can't get in because the handle is too high for him.

What do you say/do with yours when they are rude to relatives?

Tried the explanation that's it hurtful and then asking him to say 'sorry' which he does but in a sulky 'sorrrrrrreeeee' way which leaves my parents with no satisfaction at all....Mum wants him sat on the stairs for 4 mins reflection.

I have read this with as much concentration as I can muster on 2 Jan, but I cannot find anything rude or punishable that your ds has done. In fact, I quite like the sound of him.

So, what were the rude things he said to grandparents?

It's attitudinal really so say my Mum says 'do you want to help me make biscuits' and instead of a 'no thank you Nana' she'll get a 'no Nana that's boring'...if she coaxes him he'll either get involved or carry on the grump with a 'Nana I said no' and I'll chip in with a 'hey don't be rude' and he'll say 'mummy don't start'.

After three or four of these instances in one visit with the Grandparents they're looking at me as if to say 'r you going to do something about this?' beyond picking him up verbally.

Say we're at home and I say 'after lunch we're going to go to the park' he'll start to cry a little and whine 'don't want to go out Mama' and I'll say 'you like the park when you get there....come on we'll come back in time to play'. He'll say 'I DON'T WANT TO GO IT'S RUBBISH' and then charge at me and thump me.

Spinspinsugar....don't get me on the subject of my Mum and her ways v's mine. She wanted the naughty step introduced when he was 2 and wouldn't wear a coat. She looks after him on his own at least one afternoon a week and always reports back that he's been a really good boy BUT she did say this weekend that he can be quite verbally rude to her and 'she just tells him she's not going to put up with it' as if to say she's in control of it but I'm not. Bottom line is she thinks we should punish all disappointing behaviour and feels that if we were doing a better job he wouldn't behave this way at all.

pinetreedog.. you really don't think it's rude that a 4year old boy can rant at guests? People that have been invited to their home? I would be deeply embarassed that my child had spoken to someone like that..especially as you say he kept going back & saying "You're never coming back". To be honest if I visited someone & their child spoke to me like that I would never want to go back.

I have to say that it is very good he has the confidence to speak ou & say he doesn't enjoy baking etc... but not in the way he has said it...

and as for him thumping you... well, I hope you know that is wrong.

Well people I have always experienced the opposite problem, ie DP and I know full well that dd(6) is a monster. This is a constant worry to us but unfortunately everyone else in dd's life thinks she is great. MIL and one auntie are particularly bad.
It doesn't matter what we do to instil some discipline, they do their best to thwart it with their 'oh, darling, dearest, sweetie-pie, granny/auntie will sort out everything for you'. We have tried frank discussion, instructing them to ignore the wee princess, shouting at them to ignore the cutesy pie, nothing works!
Then they go home and we are left to deal with the atrocious behaviour.
You should have been here this morning when the issue of wearing a vest was raised.

FFF2 I know all of this is wrong and I've found the past 10 days absolutely exhausting from start to finish. DP assures me that he's not normally this bad BUT that is why I'm asking for a little guidance as to how I should handle it. What would you do FFF2?

Should also add that the 'friends' that came round were his friends not ours i.e. 4 yrs old but I use the word 'friends' loosely now as I wouldn't want to come back if I were them.

Aw sweetheart, I don't know what I would do, I do know I would be horrified & exhausted.

As I said before, it's great he has confidence, but there's a fine line between a confident child & a cocky child.

I would start by making him aware of the consequences for speaking to people like that.. I particularly didn't like the way he said to you "Mummy don't start !" what makes a 4yr old think they can speak to an adult like that?

Where's the respect that he shows you & your dh? Or his grandparents?

is it possible that he could be mimicking how people talk to him. if it's not you, then maybe your mum does it on the afternoon's he is with her?

I found that often my stroppy DCs don't know how to phrase things politely or kindly. So I don't tolerate rudeness but I do suggest how they might have said things better or get them to think about what they might have said. They are still learning about what language is appropriate when, and the right phrases don't seem to spring to theit tongue very readily.

This is a constant battle though - I feel I'm always dealing with back chat and strops - and my eldest is only 9! I'm hoping they'll be lovely 25 year olds!

My dd 1 was exactly like that at age 4 - doing and saying things I wouldn't have expected until she was a teenager, like stomping off up the stairs and telling me she was leaving home if I didn't give her 100% what she wanted. She has always been very switched-on with excellent language and arguing (!) skills and it sounds like your ds is too.

I have to say that now, at age 6, we only have the odd problem with rudeness. They DO learn to control themselves over time. We always told dd how we expected her to behave/speak, but it took a long time to see results. Personally I WOULD put your ds out of the room/on the step, after a warning or two. Obviously it's up to you and not your mum's business if that's not the way you choose to deal with him. I think the important thing is that he knows it is not acceptable to speak rudely. I think it was around age 5 we started using pocket money withdrawal which worked well.

We never had much success with "sorry" - first they have to stop feeling angry or they just don't mean it. I mean, adults don't apologise while they're still angry, do they? If dd said something rude I used to put her out of the room and she had to think of something nice to say instead when she came back in.

My ds(4)is now being quite stroppy, and he has a choice of insults available from watching dd's horrid henry dvd! Oh the joys....

Robin3 - your ds sounds AWESOME! Really funny. A bit precocious maybe - and I bet that can be exasperating - but also really bright and in need of more stimulation that you could offer even if you didn't have an 18 month old to look after and mother to contend with! Also, he's a boy. I remember my mum watching my little brother tearing around the garden with the laundry basket on his back and a pretend sword being a teenage mutant ninja turtle and wondering where on earth he came from - she brought him up no differently to me and our sister (both older). He's now a charming, clever and very funny 20 year old.
The problem is well meaning friends/family who scrutinize your mothering. Stick to your guns - you know your children best.
If you teach your child what's socially acceptable, he will learn. Until then, write down the funny things he says so you can embarrass him when he's older.
My brother's best quote was when were with family for someone's birthday, and my uncle's mum had cooked a beautiful chocolate cake. Everyone had a massive slice, but when they bit into it there was complete silence. Suddenly a little voice piped up - 'This cake is DISGUSTING' he said. He was right!

Tangent he is mimicking us for sure but we're not rude to him so it's all in the tone.

Don't mind the physical stuff really as I know him well enough to know he never intentionally hurts me or anyone...it's frustration/poor self control. He spends a lot of time as a Knight which rids him of some of his physical energy.

Last week we just had him for the whole day...Mum reckons that he needs time just with me (I work FT and DP looks after the children). DP and I sat him down to play a new board game. The minute DP and I got ahead of him he lifted the board to stop play saying 'I want to win Mummy'. We explained calmly but with disappointment about what he did and then went out for a great long walk which he didn't want to go on but agreed once he realised he could look for indians/knights in the forest. Stopped for tea and he had a small tantrum about wanting me to take him to the toilet and not DP. Then back outside for more running around and then special treat to Pizza Express where he conceded that he did have a good time but was still whining about where to sit etc, etc, etc......good GRIEF!

The other thing I'd say is try not to get into the mindset of him being a 'naughty' boy - that can be self-fulfilling prophecy.

I know you're in the middle of it, but it does sound as though you're doing everything right and that it's a phase he'll grow out of. Four year olds speak their minds - it's what they do. School helps them learn social etiquette - and they do learn. Why should he know that you can't win games just because you want to? And he can't know that the way he phrases things are rude - as far as he's concerned if he doesn't want to play with someone, then there's no reason why he shouldn't tell them. What he'll learn at school is if he speaks to people like that, they won't want to play with him. It's all part of the process. Keep going and be patient.

ok. So he's always whinging, nothing pleases, tells people they're boring. Got it.

I think you have to watch when you ignore the behaviour that it doesn';t coome across as if you are silently condoning it. So to say clearly that you are not prepared to have friends over to the house if he is going to reat them so badly and then ignore his stomping and backchat afterwards.

I would get very cross if one of my kids told my mum her biscuit-making offer was boring in a rude way. Id take her quietly to one side, in another room, and give the whole 'how dare you', 'I never want to hear you talk like that to someone who loves you so much' schtick

Sounds normal to me. Just keep reminding him when he says things that are not nice or when he says them in a not nice way.
But to be honest I can't see what he has done wrong really apart from being a bit inexperienced in how and when he delivers how he feels about something. Which isn't all that surprising as he is 4 years old.

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. I guess the big debate between me and my Mum is that I realise that he's too young to instictively know all of this and I spend lots of time with other parents/children and I can see that all of this is day-to-day stuff.

My Mum sees this process of learning as 'too little too late' and because we rely on her a lot for help it is difficult to discount her opinion and try to stay consistent in one approach and remember he's only 4.

Bubbly, curly, cheeky, loving, cuddling, grandparent adoring DS2 only highlights the temperament difference but I wouldn't change either of them.

Also report back from the coal face today is that he's two stickers on the fridge for kindness to brother and no knights put in jail overnight, so perhaps a bit of normal parenting routine is what he needed or could be DP resorted to watching films all day .

Thanks for all suggestions.