Tell me about your 3 year olds

[LifeIsBusy]

We don't know many other 3 year olds, only a select handful and even the ones we know im unsure if we know enough of them to guage if what we see is anything different.

So, can you tell me about your kids and if any of the below would be concerning to you as their parent?

DS has just turned 3, he's slow to develop speech in that he doesn't have many words but can identify animals, but he doesn't generally ask for things in sentences, it tends to be one or two words 'juice please'. He uses phrases such as 'mummy help' but wouldn't necessarily be able to tell you what he wants help with but will use non verbal language communicate that.

Do 3 year olds tolerate hair cuts? We took our son to get a hair cut a few months back and it took 2 of his to distract/hold him down to let the hairdresser near him and we all tried to be as patient as possible. Instead I cut his hair last week, took forever and I couldn't actually touch his hair so just blind cutting (it doesn't look too bad 🤣 but we're working on being able to touch his hair)

Bath time is a good laugh and is enjoyed however a shower is out of the question. Is this typical?

We had workmen here this morning with drills replacing doors and that was instantly met with fear and clung to me crying.

He will generally not try any foods he doesn't recognise, I feel this is typical but again unsure? Generally has a varied diet but for example will not eat a sandwich (not something we normally have at home). He also doesn't tend to eat well if we're somewhere unfamiliar. He will snack but not sit down to a meal.

He comes home from nursery and he's generally quite difficult as he's really tired and appears to have a series of meltdowns until bed most days. Is this your 3 year old?

Yes, absolutely yes (apart from the haircuts but other than that we basically have the same child) and I'm pretty sure she's normal.

Oh and the sandwiches, my Mum made her one at their house and she looked at it like it was going to bite her. She promptly took it apart and then ate all the different parts one by one whilst still looking like we were playing a massive trick on her. 🙄

Ah sorry, the other difference is speech but I don't think it's that uncommon for there to still be quite a range for normal speech at three. Perhaps someone with more experience on speech can help.

A lot of that is normal. Nursery/pre-school etc is very tiring. I know it's sometimes only 3 hours but it seems to tire them out as much as 6 hours at home. The new activities, other children and children the environmental factors makes it more intense imo.

Haircut- normal. Lots of videos of kids freaking out at the hairdresser or barbers. I think it's hardwired in humans to think keep those sharp things away from me. Kids don't care about their hairstyle until they are older.

Speech - it sounds like he's delayed. Has he had his vision and hearing checked? It's good that he's at nursery so he learns and hears different people talking. One of my kids spoke early but couldn't say what was wrong if she was already in a bad mood. In my experience a drink or snack solves a lot of these kinds of situations. Don't forget that some adults can't identify being hangry.

All of my kids went periods of deep suspicion of unfamiliar food and had limited palates. It's all worked out long term but so stressful.

No problem preferring a bath over a shower. My son preferred them at your son's age but he's now a teen who always showers as it's easier and quicker to deal with hair washing.

@cherryonthecakes

Thank you for your wise words. With reference to the shower I think it goes beyond preference and leans more towards terror, screams and lots of crying if we go near a shower with him.

I have a number to speak to speach and language for further guidance but his hearing was checked just before 2 as we were concerned as he didn't respond to language or his name especially if his back was turned. About a month before the test though something changed and it was like he could suddenly hear everything.

Kids give you such worry 🤣

@mattieandmummy

Sounds like 3 year olds are a dream 🤣. I wonder when it gets easier.

These things sounds almost identical to my little girl and she is on the waiting list for a diagnosis. I’m not saying some of these can’t be neurotypical behaviours, but they are certainly red flags for ASD & it might be worth having a conversation with your health visitor or doctor? Have nursery raised any concerns? That’s where it started for us just under a year ago… we’re currently going through NHS speech and language therapy & awaiting a multi-disciplinary assessment which will be a 9 months+ wait x

@veebs21 thanks for your insight. Are you based in England, Wales, Scotland, nI or somewhere else? (Just regarding process and timelines)

He didn't throw up any flags on the 27 month review questionnaire for ASD and my HV has given me a number to speak too speach and language again to see if they'd like a referral or for if they could give me things to target. I am planning on calling them later on in the week (it's specific time slots). He had his review at the nursery just before Xmas but they said they didn't have any concerns with his development. The only thing they said was that sometimes the other children get frustrated as they don't know what he is trying to say but they said his speach would come.

I'm in two minds at the minute. Some of the things I see I think are flags but my DW would suggest he's just sensitive and that he will get there 🤨.

What convinced you to push for a review?

[quote LifeIsBusy]@veebs21 thanks for your insight. Are you based in England, Wales, Scotland, nI or somewhere else? (Just regarding process and timelines)

He didn't throw up any flags on the 27 month review questionnaire for ASD and my HV has given me a number to speak too speach and language again to see if they'd like a referral or for if they could give me things to target. I am planning on calling them later on in the week (it's specific time slots). He had his review at the nursery just before Xmas but they said they didn't have any concerns with his development. The only thing they said was that sometimes the other children get frustrated as they don't know what he is trying to say but they said his speach would come.

I'm in two minds at the minute. Some of the things I see I think are flags but my DW would suggest he's just sensitive and that he will get there 🤨.

What convinced you to push for a review?[/quote]
We are in England, in Surrey. There is every chance his is just a speech delay, but the below is my experience towards an expected ASD diagnosis.

My little girl had no flags on the 27 month review either but I was very aware that the health visitor who was doing it (over Zoom because pandemic!) was almost pushing me to suggest higher answers than I felt were truly correct (but in my heart of hearts so wanted to be!). At the end of the call I tried to discuss "any other concerns" regarding her lack of two-way conversation and her lack of attention when you say her name, but she swiped it away and told me she was fine based on my answers and they would see me again when she was 5.

This was probably Jan 2021, she returned to nursery in February 2021 after a good chunk of time out. They raised concerns relatively quickly - her key worker just happened to be the SEN lead so I guess she could see the flags. When I mentioned about the health visitor, she said they often don't want to do the paperwork and leave nursery to deal with it. I have to say they were incredible. I hesitated to begin with, wanting to think it was "pandemic delays" and while she agreed to a wait and see approach after a month or two she gently suggested we get the ball rolling because of waiting lists - and that if she gets to her turn in the list and it isn't required then that's fine.

It started with a visit from a lady from the council who came to recommend how the nursery could better support her (1-to-1 and small group activities to encourage language and interaction). This was then followed by a referral to speech and language, and then a more recent referral on to the paediatrician (which is the MDA we are waiting for).

Her main red flags are:

• Lack of two-way conversation (that is improving, but largely functional related to wants and needs, rather than sociable)
• Echolalia/scripting. I thought she had great language until I realised it was just learned and she wasn't really using it functionally apart from repeating it verbatim.
• Often doesn't respond to her name
• Very short attention span - "flits" between activities
• Very simple play sequences - she doesn't enjoy imaginary play/dress up like her peers do, she will do some but it's short and simple, whereas by three I've been told they should be lengthening these.
• Not very fussed by other kids (this is improving but it's noticeable compared to her peers who enjoy playing with/alongside each other, she has no draw to doing that)
• She's a sensory seeker in every way - enjoys spinning, being tipped upside down, opening/closing doors, running and never walking anywhere! However, she doesn't like loud noises either (we discovered through having workmen here - she was clinging to me like a limpet and she's not a cuddly child particularly). Equally she is terrified of showers (despite loving the tipping buckets at a swimming pool?!).
• Very limited with food. Won't eat anything she doesn't recognise.
• Almost limitless energy and no sense of danger.

The main things to look out for with ASD is social quirks and repetitive behaviours. Did he point on time, to show interest? My daughter was a little delayed in this (although just within expected parameters I think) and was very independent/entertained herself from early on, when my friends' kids were always bringing them things or wanting to involve them in her play.

Sorry I've written an essay! So I'll stop there but happy to answer any further questions. The last thing I'll say here is that I'd make the call to speech and language and they can assess whether they think it's needed - they won't treat him if it's not and if he comes on in the next few months then you can always cancel. The waiting list for us for SLT was 4/5 months.

Oh and meltdowns. Lots of them. They don't seem to follow the standard ASD meltdown formula in that it's them becoming overwhelmed. I think it's a mixture of standard toddler tantrums/feelings and her inability to really express herself properly when something is annoying/upsetting her without losing her rag.

@veebs21 it's crazy as a lot of what you're describing sounds so similar to my wee man but then again there are also a number of differences but I suppose that's why it's a spectrum.

He doesn't tiptoe walk or flit between activities, he does see the danger in things and needs that little bit extra support when he's unsure of a large slide ect.

However a lot of his speach is echolia but I was unsure how normal this was at this point given he has such limited speach a lot of early speach is represented with echolia but he's starting to venture beyond some of that... All be it a year behind where I think I would have expected it.

He does point but he was just shy of 2 before that appeared. Like I mentioned previously we were concerned about hearing loss (and as stupid as it sounds he used to have wax pouring out his ears up until a month before his hearing test which is when everything changed).

Pre that point he never responded to noise and definitely didn't respond to his name but he has from that point on.

Nursery have said that he plays with other children but he doesn't stick to any one of them, it depends what the other children are doing and he will go join in with whatever he enjoys the most. Maybe this would suggest a lack of interest in other children? 🤔

I'm definitely speaking to speach and language and I'll see what they think 🤔

@LifeIsBusy Yes I think they say echolalia is a part of normal development until around 30 months when it should start to wane and functional language take over. We did see a dip around this time, but she still scripts to herself when playing - less so to us. When she did/does it is usually in context, she'll be repeating a scene from Bing about a big puddle when walking past a big puddle for example. I've done a lot of reading up on it and speech therapists would rather a child used echolalia than not talk as they have more of a grounding to work from, so that's a positive. They also say that echolalia can be a really helpful tool in your child expressing themselves until they can find the actual words - we try to listen to what she's saying, work it backwards to the show or event that it comes from and see if there's any more information we can glean from it (if that makes sense).

Until you get to see speech and language therapy, just talk through everything you do in front of him. Literally every step of things so he can hear language being used functionally. "I'm running the bath - turn the tap on. Water is splashing. Bath is getting full. Time to put bubbles in. Turn the tap off - water stopped. etc etc." And when you're playing with him, just using as much language as possible. That's what we were told. It seems simple, but it's effective.

My daughter is very self led, which sounds like maybe your son is too. She will attend to activities that she enjoys for a good amount of time, but things she is less inspired by she will lose interest and walk off, even if she is being engaged with by other kids or adults. That sounds fine and normal in a lot of ways - why do something you don't enjoy?! - but I know at this stage they like to see kids begin to engage with adult-led activities as they'll have to do that in school.

Funnily enough, my daughter also used to have the waxiest ears! But passed just fine on the hearing test. I suspected she would though, her lack of response definitely seemed a choice - she can hear a chocolate box open from 4 rooms away, haha. Perhaps your son has had some kind of glue ear or similar which has now cleared and he'll make big strides forwards? All my fingers crossed for you!

This sounds like my little one. His 3 in 4 months but has always had a very short attention span. Switching between activities very quickly, plays alongside his peers or doing his own thing but he loves kids. He likes chasing and to be chased or hide and seek. He is starting nursery soon though. He is bilingual but I feel the words and sentences he knows are learnt from me/DH or tv but he uses everything in correct context.

He was also at the later side with pointing 17 months with using his index finger first pointing randomly but before the pointing, he would look at me and at the sky if he saw a plane. By 24 months, he was pointing and using the correct words such as "plane" or "dog" and looking back at me and also pointing to request. He was never interested in doing baby group activities as he was more interested in running around and exploring.

Our conversations are slightly two-way ish, not there yet but I've recently started getting a response when I ask a question but it's still no where near his peers. He has always been very alert and as the pp has mentioned, he would hear a box of chocolate open from rooms away and run towards it. He would stop to listen to a plane going by or helicopter in the house or a siren. He loves police cars, ambulance and fire trucks and loves hearing the sirens.

He used to hate the hair dryer and now he doesn't mind even though I probably use it a few times a year so he isn't always exposed to it for him to get used to it either. I think his grown out of it. With his recent haircut, I had to have him on my lap but it was more smoother compared to last summer where he screamed the place down.

I still have my concerns though and reading through this thread and when he starts nursery soon, I know some areas will be flagged up. He is super active although he would run off but has better recall now and will come back and also, he is very hesitant this year with the big slides or if there's a pool he is aware it's deep compared to a year before where we had to hold him back and he had no awareness of the depth. His understanding is good but there's no reasoning although slightly better now.

Hi, sorry to reply to an old thread but I found this whilst googling things/concerns about my 3.3 year old.

Your description almost exactly matches where mine is. Would you mind providing an update as to how yours is getting on now nearly 2 years later?

I'm hoping you can put my mind at ease a little.

Hi @Bloopeeper - I don’t know if you’re referring to me or to the OP, but I can update you on my daughter 😊

She received an autism diagnosis in April 2022. She started mainstream primary school in September, with an EHCP, and is doing well. We won’t know if it’s going to be a success just yet - it depends how she continues to be able to access the learning as demands grow.

We have seen huge improvements though. Her language is much improved, as is her ability to hold a conversation, though it is on her terms and generally around her wants and needs. She still scripts a lot, but I’ve learned about gestalt language processing and am embracing this as her way of learning language and am supporting her with methods that will help her.

She’s much more flexible, and able to advocate for herself so meltdowns are fewer. We are able to do more things without worrying, and she is making friends and talking about them at home - not to mention has a (mostly!) wonderful relationship with her 3yo sister. She spent the first 1.5/2 years of her life mostly ignoring her.

We aren’t without challenges but I do wish I could see what we have now two years ago, it’s the unknown that is hard to grasp.

Here if you have any questions, will happily help where I can x

Thank you for your reply. I was actually asking OP but your update is very welcome.

My son is quite functional in his language and more typically uses 2 word sentences across a day. He can use longer ones of 4 or 5 words but these are uncommon. He uses scripts etc. but for about 15% of his language.

Mercifully meltdowns are not that common anymore. They were when he started the school nursery. But we actually took him out of thay one due to issues with safeguarding. He's in a much nicer place now and comes and goes cooperatively and happily. He's never had any issues with routines being disrupted and likes going to new places - particularly outdoors. Noises, sounds, lights, smells etc. not an issue. Food, yes he's picky but he has tried new stuff recently and eats peas oddly enough. His language has been a standout issue for about a year now. We tried to give him time (too much, in hindsight) before accepting referrals.

We are now accepting the one from his new school and we are also working with a speech therapist privately. The school have pointed out his repetitive behaviors too so we'll see how we go with diagnosis routes.

I don't know...If I take him to a soft play he will play alongside the other children, shows off in front of girls, will get on board a tiny little bus ride with 6 others and sit among them, but he can't talk to them properly!

So I've come to the position that diagnosis is not vital now and won't happen on the NHS for some time yet. The problem that is clear and obvious is speech. So I will do what I can to help him with his speech. I just regret that we didn't do something sooner.