Hate going out with my DSs (8 & 5) as they're really badly behaved in public... normal or not?

[gameboy]

Love my boys dearly, but both DH and I hate being out with them together on the high street, shopping centres etc as they just seem to become so badly behaved...

I think it's related to the fact that I have this 'vision' of us being out together as a family, walking around together, chatting, looking at things together etc etc, but in reality:

• DS1 (8) charges off ahead, getting in people's way, like a bull in a china shop. I don't like not being able to see him, and also I don't really trust his sense of road safety
• DS2 (5) gets upset that DS1 has charged off and either runs after him (even more dangerous) or starts crying
• DS1 'hides' (e.g. behind a pillar) and jumps out at DS2, so (again) Ds2 cries and gets angry

OR
if we insist that they walk WITH us, then it's only a matter of minutes before one of them is poking the other, or pulling their hood down, or DS2 is hanging off the back of DS1's coat, then falls over.

If we're somewhere e.g. waiting in the cinema for tickets then they just keep running off/ charging around/ climbing on things etc.
There's just so much jostling/ hanging on going on between them.

I know it sounds completely pathetic, but DH and I are SO SICK of it. Nothing we say or do seems to make ANY difference.
It spoils any day out we have, as we seem to spend all the time separating them and shouting "WILL YOU LEAVE EACH OTHER ALONE!"

I look jealously at all these families who seem to be having a nice time together.
Is it just us/ them?

(Off out to get the 'little darlings', but will pop back later, and would be grateful for any advice/ insights etc!)

gameboy, I have no advice but am going to watch this with interest as my DS1 and DS2 (aged 8 and 6) are often like this when we go out! You're not alone, though!

I'm also watching with interest!

Might it be novelty? Mine (ds 8, dd 7) are lovely on the school run (which is a walk) because it's routine & straightforward & they know what they're meant to be doing. But take them on a one-off trip to look at shoes (for me) on a Saturday afternoon ...

Because of the above, I usually do divide & conquer on shopping trips & just take one. Is that feasible for you?

Oh - if we are going out as a family - for lunch or something - I always always always take Books. So that as soon as larking reaches that particular pitch (eg on the Tube, which seems like an especial trigger) I can just hand those out - works like a dream for us.

If your little one is too young for that a magazine might work?

Both mine [7 & 3] act like this quite a lot, usually on the school run. Outside the house it's dangerous but aftet hat its just a park & school so no cars. It's still very annoying.

Its usually the 3 year who instigates the running away but then they both start....

My new/latest tactic is telling them they are too slow and run away from them! [results in screams of mummy wait take my handy etc]

They do not do this when out with my parents or PIL. Just with me and sometimes dh.

Normal for 2 boys with that sort of age gap ime. But different dynamics if a girl is in the mix.

I don't think it's dependant on gender. My dds are 7 and 4 and would behave like this if they weren't told not to. We tell them that if they want to come out with us then they have to behave well. It may take a badly behaved trip to point out what is not behaving well and then on the next outing remind them of it and say that they can only come if they don't behave that way. Probably need reminding a few times while out on the first few trips. Once the older child gets the hang of it, then it rubs off onto the younger.
My oldest boys have almost three years between them and this worked for them too. While their behaviour would slip occassionally, for the most part they were well-behaved.

They are old enough to understand consequences and how to behave. Although I would err on the side of positive behaviour management, do you praise them when they are not hitting each other? Do you tell them that if they remain sensible for X minutes they will get a reward - comic, trip to the park whatever they are interested in.

Explain that if they do not walk sensibly with you there will be a removal of privilages, no TV or computer etc.

I have 2 DCs 8 and 3, the 3 yr old has serious behavioural problems and SN, he is able to understand the concept of praise for good behaviour and can cope with a short trip around the shops.

I like to enjoy time with my family not dread it.

Could you enlist and reward the help of the eldest?
Take him aside before the outing and tell him how what you expect of the two youngest, ask for his help and then reward him if he sets a good example?
I find this helps with DS1 who's much younger than your DS1 but by making his cooperation and help special and adult to me he seems to behave better.

Sorry...meant to say that you're letting him know that you trust that he will be well behaved and taking this as a given so he is then asked as the eldest to help you.

Do they want to be on the trip? I think my strategy would depend on that...

The basic principle is the same for anything - reward even small steps in the direction you want, and punish moves which are too far in the opposite direction.

If they want to be there, then the "punishment" for behaving badly would be that you all go straight home and they don't get the trip. Decide for yourself how bad is too much, they won't become angels overnight and will get discouraged by unreachable goals. Even a small improvement helps. The trip itself is the reward for behaving adequately well.

If they don't want to be there in the first place, then I'd offer a "reward" for being good (again, decide how good!) - maybe an additional stop which would be more fun, a small treat, etc (on the way back, so it follows after the good behaviour during the trip). Here the "punishment" is that they don't get the treat unless they behave reasonably.

If they can see that doing things your way is worth their while, and doing the opposite is not so much fun, then they will hopefully change over time. You can then move your expectations so they have to do a bit better to get the reward...